So, opinions - could shoes (or not having shoes on) have done this? What do y'all think?

Question

Short version: 20yr old buckskin gelding w/navicular/8 yr old grey mare-healthy and sound. Aug. '06, buckskin shod with theraputic shoes, couldn't stay sound. Dec '06 pulled shoes. April '07, no longer rideable- sore through shoulders/back, bucking, hyper sensitive to touch, can't tolerate leg pressure against sides.

8 yr old mare, never shod in life. June '06 started back after 4 years as broodmare, working into some Level 2 movements (mysteriously pulled from Dressage training at 3 1/2 & turned into broodmare)... hmm.... Dec. '07 no longer rideable - incredibly shoulder sore, sore through back, withers, sacrum, cannot tolerate pressure on sides, girth, saddle, or forward motion.

Both have had numerous vets. Gelding 100% retired. Recent opinion on vet is to shoe her - quarter cracks on feet unsupported without shoes could be causing discomfort through body, shoulders, and inability/lack of desire/ to move forward.

Question is: do you think not being shod could do this?

Answer 1

If the gelding needed corrective shoeing to stay more sound with his navicular, then being barefoot definitely could cause trouble for him. It's not one of those maladys that go away just because you stop working them...



With the mare, I doubt being unshod did it, because she's never had shoes on. Does she have a history of problems with quarter cracks? One old lesson horse I knew was more prone to them when his angles got too low



Incorrect shoeing OR trimming can definitely cause soundness problems elsewhere in the body. Low angles hyperextend joints. too high of angles lead to jarring throughout the body. The lateral balance of the foot is important too- it will cause deviation from the horse's natural way of going.



BUT severe body soreness could definitely indicate trouble other than feet, too. Bad fitting saddle, An unbalanced rider, being pushed too hard for fitness level and physical ability, Lyme disease, EPM, etc....



Have you had any massage or chiropractic work done on them?

My mare was pretty much a pleasure riding horse until her later teen years. When my show horse had a stroke and had to be put down, I started working her for the showring. About a month in, she started getting body sore and sour.

We had the farm's chiropractor work on her, and there was a HUGE change in her right away.

Answer 2

Is the same farrier trimming your mare?



Nevicular is a man made disease from farriers. When they close in the back of the shoe because there lazy and don't want the horse to pull it so they have to drive back over and tack it back on, it causes the heels to contract which cuts off oxygen to the Nevicular bone and then the bone starts to deteriorate.



Most farriers do this so what I would do when I would compete is find one that pulled the toes back and left room for the heels to expand. Then in the winter time I would pull the shoes off to let the heels open back up. Every three weeks or so, I would take a rasp and shave the toes a little and the heels a little less. Be sure to use a knife and clean out the sole and around the frog. This is the only way I could keep my open horse sound.



If the saddle fits then it is the front feet causing secondary soreness in the withers and then the back end. Have her front feet x-rayed.

Answer 3

If both horses show the same symptoms,and are not related genetically, it may have something to do with feed (or a toxicity, vit or mineral deficiency,etc ) or the horse was ridden incorrectly.



Leaving horses unshod would not do that by itself, unless they were in pastures of glass and sharp gravel.



Our whole extended family of riders only have 1 shod horse out of 35- and that is because he has basically no strength in his hoof wall.

All of the others are unshod, and do everything from dressage (up to 3rd level), jumping (adult amatuer) and western speed events- all without any shoes.



I don't know where you live, but where I am from (central Wisconsin) only a minority have their horses shod- most prefer to leave them barefoot.



EDIT: it could be a crappy farrier as well-constantly walking on bad feet can really mess up a horse- get a second opinion. Don't just ask your vet because most are not versed in correct trimming techiques.

Answer 4

I agree with John - it sounds like a nervous system thing. If noxious weeds aren't the cause, I would see if you can get an x-ray of the mares neck. Dressage horses can develop arthritis and bone spurs that can affect the spinnal cord and show up as other pain issues through-out the body.



Does she seem fine when at pasture? Typically horses with neck problems will exhibit them only when being worked because when they are at pasture they can stretch their neck out and it doesn't bother them.



I really doubt shoes, or no shoes alone is causing all those problems.

Answer 5

I don't think it's because of not being shod. My horse is 25 and he hasn't been shod since i've had him and i got him when he was 8 yo and he doesn't and hasn't had any of those problems. Have you tried a equine muscle therapist? I used to work at one of the top racing stables in Melbourne Australia and the trainer used to get horses with back soreness checked by the myotherapist. It might be something worth trying. Good luck

Answer 6

no, i don't think that not having shoes could do that.



most of the time, problems like you describe are related to genetics or some other factor.

for instance, some horses are predisposed to having hoof problems because they naturally have weak hoof walls. some breeds, such as Arabs, generally don't have this problem, but it can also depend on bloodline.



conformation could be another factor. if your horse(s) have less than ideal conformation, it can put strain on certain muscle groups, all the way down to the hoofs, which could cause the soreness.



it could also have been from traumatic illness or other event, such as laminitis. alot can affect the horse's body and hoofs.



otherwise, i do think that shoes will help the horse with hoof cracks, it will alleviate some of the pressure and help keep it from worsening. i would suggest talking with your vet and seeing if they would recommend some pain reliever for your sore horse or maybe a equine massage therapist to make their retirement more comfortable.



hope that helped.



best wishes.

Answer 7

Let me say this at first, I have only put shoes on my horse once in his life (he is now 18 years old and still ridable).



Get a farrier to come out and let them look at their feet. Try to find a barefoot farrier in your area (look at link below for more information on it). It helped wonders on my horse. They tend to know more about the natural process of the hoof from what I have experienced and trim accordingly to what needs to be done. There may be something that they can do it to fix it if it is caused by their feet.



Your problem may be caused by the farrier that trims your horses. That is what caused my horse to be extremely sore on rocks until I got a barefoot farrier (now he is doing great).



ALWAYS get a second opinion on it. Even if it just over the phone.



Hope this helps

Answer 8

Gosh it's really hard to say, I'm not vet and I'm no farrier. From experience, however, I do say soem horses need to be kept shod or they go lame. My old QH mare would work perfectly for me and show to her fullest potential with shoes on. When she had her first baby I pulled her shoes and immediately noticed she went lame. I figured it was just her feet being tender from having been kept shod for so long , so I just gave her time to adjust. 4 months later she was STILL lame. Had vets out , xrays taken, farrier came out and tried a different trim on her... Still lame. Finally after she had foaled and the filly was about 3 weeks old we put shoes back on the mare.... INSTANTLUY sound again! Weird but it worked and to this day if you take shoes off ehr she goes lame and I mean dead lame but put them back on and within a day she's sound again. Now as for the mare and her shoulder/back issues. Have then been seen by an equine chiropractor? It may help. A friend of mines roping horse will not do anything unless he sees his back cracker atleast every other week. If he doesn't see Dr. Rhodewal he hobbles around like a little old man and he's only 9.... Just a thought. But in my opinion it is possible that not being shod could be the cause, but as I said, I'm no vet or farrier.



Ok shoot the back cracker part I just saw where you had they had been seen by Chrio..... I honestly don't know what else to say. As silly as it sounds could it also be in their mind? We had another old QH that would be running full tilt boogey in the pasture and you walked out there with a halter and caught her she's start limping. Tack her up and lead her off she'd limp. If you didn't know the mare you'd think great, put her back up and as soon as you turned her loose she'd be running and buckling again not a lame step. If you actually knew the mare, after tacking her up you would get on her and she'd limp for about 5 minutes. When she realized she wasn't going o get out of the work she's stop limping and go about like a sound horse. She was sound and was just lazy about work and tried to get out of it.

Answer 9

it takes about a year for a shod horse when you pull the shoes to grow a thicker hoof so they can perform well without shoes.lets look at both similarities.both have sensitivity problems on their sides and both are basically having nerve problems creating pain or touch problems.have they both foundered ?have you checked the pasture for noxious weeds?to me this doesn't sound like a hoof issue it sounds like a nervous system issue and not a shoeing issue.



edit if you have a vet university near you this may be a good case for them.also as jeff said it could be a weed problem and it only takes a little bit to get the nervous problem started and it could have come from a bale of hay.

Answer 10

I have a mare who is falling down lame if ridden yet quite happy on her own in the paddock chasing her mates.



I ended up getting a pair of those Old Mac boots and she is now sound as a bell when ridden at all paces and all terrain.



My vet has concluded that she simply associates workload with pain and reacts accordingly now. When I got her 20years ago she had a bruised/abcessed hoof so bad the entire hoof shell fell off, and some major ringbone.



Maybe this could help yours.

Answer 11

I'm also wondering at the similarities on two unrelated horses. What do they have in common?...besides the farrier? Same pasture...like John mentioned. Same farrier...like you said, but I've never seen those symptoms...even with a bad farrier.



I really don't think it comes from not being shod. Have they had bloodwork done? Really does sound like 'something' has gotten into their systems.

Answer 12

Well, my 11 year old appaloosa had never been shod his whole entire life. At least once a week, he'd end up being lame as he has white tender feet, which are hooves PRONE to stone bruises. He was normally fantastic under saddle as well, but from being sore, he'd favour legs, which caused his back to play up as well.



I decided to do both front shoes as a test to see how he racts. He was lame when they were being put on, and the next day, he wasn't lame. From not favouring, his back had also healed from the rest.



The day after one day more of rest to get used to his shoes, I saddled him up, and he was fantastic. He'd pick his feet up alot more when riding, and he never stumbled, tripped or limp over rocks like he used to.



Cracks in hoof would most definately cause soreness, and a problem like mine, will cause leg favouring and that would make her body sore.



In my opinion, as much as I hated it and maybe you to, you would have to get her shod for the sake of your horses well being. Even trial them. By the sounds of it, your horse and mine are horses that NEED shoes.

Answer 13

I think more problems arise from lopsided riders,who either dont sit straight or use the saddle to haul their weight up on to the horse,than ever happens from a horse being shod or unshod unless of course you have your horses shod by an complete incompetent.

That what i think,hope it helps the debate

Answer 14

I agree with John. Check for spiny Amaranth in pasture. It causes similar symptoms. It looks like pigweed but has sharp stickers which are especially noticeable if the plant has been cut off and allowed to dry.