Anyone else very concerned about beginners lack of knowledge

Question

It is frightening me the number of obvious beginners asking questions on how to.....break a youngster...begin lunging and generally starting young stock.
What are we to do?
I have looked into the welfare of horses/ponies but can't find anything.
Anyone know of anything?
I realise we all have to start somewhere.
Is there a law somewhere that states we should have a minimum knowledge requirment of equine care before we can perchase one?

Answer 1

This is an excellant discussion question. A person with a good heart and willingness to learn can get a horse and do quite well.

But no one wants to just teach any more, they are all looking for the big buck and have to have a gimmick and charge big dollars because of the gimmicks. Send beginners you know to any program that is available for free. Especially 4-H. I am part of a 4-H program and the base of our program is free training and safety for horse and rider. We have just graduated 5 members from the CHA testing levels.

Very little about horses is free anymore. Encourgage your beginners to get help where ever they can.

Answer 2

Unfortunately, as with all animals, the person at fault is the person who sells a pony to someone who is a rank beginner without ensuring that this person has the capacity to stick with the problem. Really it is they who are the most responsible here.



But I would certainly encourage anyone who loves horses, or who wants to own one, to make sure they are fully aware of the commitment this means in terms of time, and money. The best way to do this would be to hang around a livery or similar offering to help with things like mucking out stables and so forth, and then moving onto grooming, before even thinking of getting on the horses back. Yes, we all have to start somewhere, but it is better to do that under the kindly eye of a more experienced person and long before we take the step of getting a horse into our personal care.



Frustrating when you are young, I realise, but if you really love horses, then the horse's well-being will be important to you.



And if you have never broken a horse in, then don't get a youngling. You really need to know what you are doing (which can only be learned from being part of the process as an observer and under supervisions. Otherwise you will just ruin a horse.

Answer 3

I have been riding for 30+ years and I will not try to break in a young horse. But my son that has been riding for years just bought a 4 year old green broke twh mare. She has had a few hours under the saddle and is doing great, BUT I know as he does she does not have the experience of an older good broke horse. He is learning with her. We help and advise the best way we can. If there is something that he or we do not know then we ask. Either on here or the fella that we bought her from. Now I wouldn't have let him buy her if I didn't think she was a good horse. I have to say she is laid back and just an easy horse to deal with. I have felt the fear on here you are talking about. But I have to stop and consider that these kids do have family too that are giving them advice. Its the ones that doesn't have it that scares me to death so try and give the best advice possible. If they are allowed to have a young horse to break then you might be the one that helps them around the dangerous parts. The one thing I have always said is if you want a broke horse to ride give it to a teen for awhile. They try every darn thing on them and if they come off they get back on kids have no fear. I was like that when I was younger but now that I am older I dont want to come off that horse it hurts to much. The only thing we can do is talk to them tell them what they need to know and hope they listened. When we purchased this horse we had them drop her off at a local forestry to do a 3 day ride and to see how well she did with my son. He is 16 and a great rider but he got that way by riding his first lil mare that was spunky. She is now so dead broke that he can do anything to her and she just stands there with the big goofy horse smile. Anyways ....the new mare ...on the second day we pushed both of them. We took them on a 10 mile trail and at the end of it I couldn't have been any more happier than I was with both of them they did great. The link below is her on the last day on the trail ready to go again.

Answer 4

I understand what your saying, and ya, it concernce me. I think it is one thing to ask your trainer how to do something, but when your asking what is basicly the world (I mean the internet in case you didn't know) how to teach your horse to "rear", that is what worries me. I find less and less people are listening to their trainers, trainers know (or should know) what they are talking about and people just ignore them and do their own little thing. They are not consulting with the people who are going to teach them, and if they are, they get upset because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear and do it anyway. Green owner/rider/"trainer" and 5 year old do not go well togeter. I try not to give the actual awnser to the question to those kind of questions, because if I were to, they would actually do it, or at least try it. I don't think the should make a law that you should have a certain amount of knowledge, but they should buy older, more expericnced horses. People selling the horses should have some kind of an escape route, they need to evaluate how good of a rider this person is. There is not that much they can do though. But would you want your 4 year old to be sold to a person who has no idea how to ride a broke lesson horse right? All I can say is that their is nothing we can do, you can't just walk up and tell them how your feel about it, maybe someone will see this question.

Answer 5

You are right that there are some people out there that are biting off way more than they can cope with. Asking questions is good but it is the people who are trying to walk before they can run that irritate me. Everyone does need to start somewhere but the problem is that unlike the majority of other sports or hobbies ours involves a live animal and so it is important that people are realistic about their capabilities.



I train problem horses (with 27 yrs experience) and most of the horses I ride have problems caused by inexperienced owners. For example, a 15.3hh horse I train was bought for an 8 year girl (who had been riding for a year) when the horse was 4 and had only been backed for 6 months. Not only was the poor child over horsed but the horse ended up with many behaviourial issues as it didn't get any set boundaries and knew it could getaway with anything. This isn't good for the horse or the child.



All beginners out there please keep asking the questions to fnd out and learn more but try to be realistic about your capabilities for you own safety as well as the horses welfare.

Answer 6

No there are no laws to prevent that.

Everyone has to start somewhere and we all learn as we go along. It is to be hoped that these people get sound advice and know the best time to run for help when they need it.

With the price of young unbroken horses falling the way it is this is the perfect chance for someone with a little money to get their dream come true. Some will make a hash of it but really there is nothing that can be done to prevent this.

Sorry.



Edit> Taking on an unbroken horse is not something I'd choose to do myself.

Answer 7

Concerned about a beginners lack of knowledge!!! I thought that was what a beginner was...one with out knowledge of what ever..it could be riding a bicycle..we have beginners there with a lack of knowledge or we have vehicle drivers, beginners with a lack of knowledge, or we have the school kids grade one, there is some beginners there with a lack of knowledge too. Oh and new parents, talke about beginners with a lack of knowledge..So where are these beginnners supposed to find their knowledge I wonder. I guarentee you none of us no matter how experience we think we are came out of the womb knowing how to look after or ride or train a horse. Some of us have a God given talent with handling horses, and with the help of some experienced horse people we become better at the talent. We all have to start at the beginning, not knowing much, learning, either by reading, listening, and hands-on. If we are to be spending much time with a 1000 lb horse every day or at least a good many days, we are bound to put ourselves in some sort of danger at some time, and we learn from that too. As for laws regarding who is to be allowed to own their own pony or horse or who is allowed to ride one, or who is allowed to train one or who is allowed to keep that horse at home or in what barn.and who decides if I am allowed to do this, ..yes (JK) , that is what we all need. another law made by those higher ups who don't know one end of the horse from the other.I got my first horse who was a wildie when I was a kid, and I learned from that horse, I was not hand fed with information and coaching, and training, I learned as I went along, You might say that I was a beginner with no knowledge. The horse died on the farm at the age of 30+

Answer 8

I think the main concern should be are people providing their horses with basic care, i.e. shelter, feed, water, vet and farrier. If they are, I think its fine for beginners to own horses.



Your question may not be completely off base, but I would imagine laws vary from state to state. In most states the care of horses as far as laws are concerned is actually probably pretty lax. Where I live horses are considered "livestock", so I doubt there is any minimum knowledge requirement. Even if there was, who would evaluate it? I guess it would be great because each state would have to hire an army of horse trainers that would come out and scrutinize you when you bought a new horse. So those of us who love working with horses could get some extra work. But personally I don't think the government has that much business in people's lives, determining if you are worthy to own a horse by how well you lunge it. I think they should focus only on abuse and neglect, but being able to lunge a horse has nothing to do with either one of those (unless you're beating your horse to get him to lunge).



That being said, it might be nice if each state made information available on basic horse care. I know where i live they have pamphlets on proper feeding and foot care for new horse owners. Maybe they could also put out basic training and handling pamphlets too.



The biggest concern I would have regarding your remark about "obvious beginners" is personal safety. Its important for people to be able to handle their horses safely but they may not know how to do it.



David

http://gentlenaturalhorseman.blogspot.com/

Answer 9

There is only one way to gain experience, and that is to experience what ever you are trying to get experienced at! Having laws about a minimum knowlede of equine care before purchasing a horse, would be like having a law about minimum knoledge of how to care for kids before letting some one have a baby! It's not going to happen.

I think that it is awsome that people are atleast seeking advise on a websight like this, rather than just letting a problem they have get worse.

I really hate the people who answer questions by condeming the person for having an animal in the first place. I would rather see a beginer with a horse that is trying that may make a few mistakes, than see an experienced person with a horse that is abusive because thy think they know it all.

Answer 10

Come on give the beginners a break, they can be annoying some times but you were one once.! Most times a beginner is quite nervous of horses in general, so i think that we can be assured that they wont buy a stallion or a problem horse. They usually pick the hacks that tolerate beginners and youngsters. The horse usually teaches the beginners.! To bring in a law for these poor people, come on that's a little over the top.! I suppose to make yourself feel better you could suggest some "horse clinics" and books and DVD's, but i find the best way to learn is from your peers and also to learn from your own mistakes.!

Answer 11

Honestly i think it is scarey! i answered a question on here last night asked by a girl who has bought a horse and cannot trot it well because she has only ever walked a horse before! She also refused to get a trainer or have any lessons! I think the people selling these horses need to be a bit more careful aswell. But you cant help people who dont want to be helped, i just hope these horses dont suffer too much

Answer 12

Nothing wrong with a beginers lack of knowledge. What scares me is when some one with the same level of expereince trys to give unsound advice. I am no where near a beginer. I learn something new everyday. Again if you are a beginer who does not know much about horses, and you try to pass yourself off as an experiance trainer(because you watched a few tapes and trained your horses) that is when you are in the wrong. I have been training for over 27 years, and I learn something new everyday. Infact I learn something new on this website everyday alone. I feel I have a good base of knowledge about horses and I know I don't know everything about horses and will be the first to admit it.



Being unknowledgeable is not the problem. Not trying to correct the ignorance and trying to say you know about horses. One of my biggest pet peeves on here is the statement '' I have been riding for 3 years and have read everying about horses, I know everything there is about horses ''. I have worked with some of the very top cutting/reining trainers out there. Plus I work along with my father who has been training succsefully for over 40 years now. And we will admit we know horses, yet we don't know horses. Working with horses is an on going learning proccess.



The one thing you can count on with horses, they will defy everything you know about horses. You work off of that method and continue to learn. You are on the right track.



Sorry for the rant, but to sum up. Lack of knowledge is not the problem. Arrogacne combined with ignorace is the problem.

Answer 13

Yes, i have seen many people who have no understanding of breaking and training completely ruin horses. No there are no laws and with no one there to prevent them from doing so there is nothing that can be done, of course everyone does have to learn at some stage but it is something that has to be learned from experience as you said and not something that can be learned over the bloody internet, it's just an accidnet waiting to happen.

People really need to cop onto themselves, training a young horse is not like training a puppy.

Answer 14

I do relise that everyone has to start somewhere but I really think that within your first year around horses you should be very closly supervised. I beginner almost killed my orse the other day all because of a lack of supervision and I personally do not ever want that girl around my horse again. I;m not saying that all beginers will be put into a situation like that agian but I think that they should be kept on a shorter leash until they can be trusted

Answer 15

Well I know I was guilty of taking on 2 ponies 15hh and 15.2hh. Both had hardly been sat on (by that I mean we bought them within a couple of days of being backed) and yes I do know now it wasn't the right way to go about it. But I didn't know any better then. We muddled through very well I have to say and yes we did make mistakes but we were forgiven for it. The only out come that I would regret is that I didn't buy an animal that knew all about it both for me and more importantly for my children. It took longer to build up our confidences ours and the horses. What I did buying 2 of them completely raw was a mistake but I wouldn't have missed the learning curve for anything. We now have 2 gentlemen reasonably trained well able to reach a fairly good standard which would be still improving if only my daughter was still over here to join me. I wouldn't have drifted away so much but we have to let them go don't we?



When we started we did have help at hand which wasn't always the best. I regret allowing them to take over when we had difficulties and "Getting a horse out of it for his own good" by riding far too strongly and pushing too far. Silly silly people who thought they knew it all and I allowed them to do it. In fact we knew better than they did and they were the so called experts. ( It breaks my heart to think of it you should really trust in yourself more!!)



I do worry about unintelligent people young or old who buy an animal and don't have the care of that animal first and foremost at the top of the list. You do need a certain ability to relate to your horse and get to know them, to know when they aren't feeling their best etc. There are those that cuddle them like soft toys and treat them as such then get up and treat them as a piece of machinery. There are too many week-end riders out there who enjoy riding but don't really have the awareness to know where to stop or when not to over do things. Like cantering in a small circle for far too long with an unfit pony/horse, sticking all sorts of peculiar bits on because they look good and other stupid stuff. Yes I am worried about these people, also some people proffering themselves as 'knowledgeable' because of what I have seen them do to my and their own horses.



I think that if you have a bucket of common sense an aware and questioning mind and a caring for the horse you can get there.

Answer 16

i know wot you meen and like your self am still lerning too

i hav 15 years experience and feel i .... how should i put this ........know alot more than the basick but i hav a friend who started off by hacking on another begginers horse and now after 2 years of shall we say...unbalanced walk and trot she is now looking into breading from someone elses mare as she thinks horses are to expencive to buy and this would be a cheep way of getting her first pony.

She also recons that it cant be that hard to brake a horse cuz she can look it up on the net, she has even bought a book!!!!!!!!

I find this very alarming and its the horse who is going to suffer in the long run,

she had askd me if i would brake it for her as i have done so with most of mine but she duznt seem to see you need YEARS of expereance even to sit on a youngster and there is no way that her few years of walk and trot will EVER amount to enuf to giv a youngster the best start!

Yes we all hav to start somewhere but we all also hav to hav the correct knowlege, training, understanding and most importantly PRACTICE!!!!!

I dont wnt to sound like i think i am the best because i am far from it but i dont wnt people who are not properly traind to think they hav the knowlege and experiance just because you cand find help in books and on the net

Answer 17

Fraid not! That would be like getting someone to take a test before they can buy a kitten. I worked in various type's of yard's when i was in my teen's, including racing yard's with youngstock, and I would say that i still don't have enough knowledge to break and bring on a youngster.

I sometime's think people buy young horses because its cheaper than say a schoolmaster.

I think riding schools should as part of a lesson be teaching pupils in regards to stable care, grass care, feeding, tack, safety etc.

people go to a riding school for 3 months and class themselves as experienced.

Answer 18

Beginners are what keep lesson barns in business and horses working. If not for perpetual generations of beginners, generation after generation, the usefulness of horses would have ended with the automobile and farm tractor. Thank goodness for beginners. Fortunately, horses are tolerant and forgiving creatures, more so it seems than some humans.

Answer 19

I was riding for 10yrs before i got my first and i learnt more in my first week with him than i did in my ten years of riding! Riding schools are ok for learning how to ride but not many teach you simple things like mucking out, tacking up, feeding etc. I dont think there should be laws but your first horse/pony ideally would be on loan so you can learn and if you cant do it or realise its more work than it looks it can go back.

Answer 20

I hope we never get to the point where the whole reason this country (I'm in the US) was established goes by the wayside and every move we make is dictated by the government. Would these laws also prevent us from buying a goldfish because we had to take classes on goldfish care first? Lots of goldfish die and get flushed....should we also make laws to put people in jail when they kill their goldfish due to improper water temperature or environment? I am against making laws to dictate our choices unless there is darned good reason for it. I don't believe there is enough good reason to pass the laws you are suggesting.

Answer 21

By law any one is allowed to buy a horse. The simple things they ask and hope you return with a reliable answer, will help them improve. When I first got my horse Abbi, I only knew limited knowladge (Lunging, hunter, etc)! I board at a local barn and they have helped me gain in knowladge. None of us can start at the top when we are begginers- so just help them move along and exel there knowladge.

Answer 22

im a beginer that purchased a 1 year old stud colt. which i no not the best idea but he is gentle and respects me he has had scrathes pretty bad and thrush from previous NBHA horse owner. i no it gets annoying when people ask question but i would rather some one ask a question than see a good horse go down because some one got tired of answering stupid questions

Answer 23

in a way i agree

by the sounds of things many people have horses that don't even no wat veg to feed them and stuff, get a book they teach you how to lung and what to feed step by step obviously you can't start at the top but if you are that interested in horses then get a book or look it up on the internet, is this the reason y there are so many people being cruel to animals because they don't no what they are doing?! well who knows but gees peeps use your common sense !!!!

lol

Answer 24

ok, beginners ask questions and rightly so. they should be encouraged. what frightens me are the people who supposedly know it all, but in reality know nothing and are too full of themselves to see the danger they put other people in.



books and experience will teach, but not everything in a lifetime. we will all go to our graves not knowing everything about horses. that was told to me by an old riding instructor.



so, still learning after nearly fifty years. but what fun our horses give us.

Answer 25

I get exactly what you mean! On here and at barns in my area.

- There are the young/beginner girls (8-11) that want to help 'finish' the 3 1/2 year old green ponies that is no where near finishing. But they want to help because they are ponies and grey/black.

- There are also the slightly above beginner (riding wise) but still lacking basic horse knowledge that want to buy 'projects'. They may not be able to thoroughly groom a horse without help from a groom or lunge or wrap a polo wrap but they still want to start their own horse from the ground up.

- No one (who is reputable) that breeds in my area because there isnt enough space at barn to keep mares and foals and there is not market for really young horses. But you still get the morons who dont know the first thing about foal health breeding their TWH to an Arabian. I am not joking, there is one at my barn. It is the funkyiest (yeah I just made that spelling up) mover I think I have ever seen. She also doesnt fit into any disipline in the area (or anywhere) because her conformation keeps her from being able to jump with any style and her movement is messed up. But someone still produced her just because they could.

- Then we have the people that BUY horses like the above because they are pretty. They come in all sort of fancy colors like pinto and roan every other color out there. They are buying the funkyly (if you know how to spell these words right send me an email please) conformed horses (cause their purdy) and plan to learn along with the horse. I knew a woman for a short period of time that had all sorts of cute (not to badly conformed) paints/pintos. I asked where she got them and she told me that she knew a woman with registered paints that bred her mare and stud every year so she could have a foal on the property. Once the foal outgrew its cute stages she gave it away. And of course never registered it. Every single year she pops out a foal. EVERY YEAR!





Sorry about the rant. But I needed to get it out. There is a lot more I could say but I would probably get reported.



I agree with you though. It is scary seeing green people buying green horses. I have never seen a situation of green horse, green rider working out without major ER bills or rider gets smart and hires a trainer. And I feel for the horses. They dont know whats going on when you break the saddle out for the first time. Training by 'trail and error' is not fair for the horse.



To all y'all saying you have to start somewhere, ect, ect.

You start on a solid lesson horse with a good trainer and figure out what in the world you are doing. After that buy an old school master (or just your average trail horse) and get out of the ring and RIDE. Learn how to handle situations in the ring and out in the open on a horse that has a 'been there, done that' attitude. Dont just ride in the ring and dont abandon all training. Balancing the two is the key. Once you can handle that, you should have at least an idea of basic knowledge. Then get with a trainer and see what they think of you skills (riding and knowledge). Make sure they are good trainers. Then if you are still interested in starting your own horse then discusse it with the trainer and work WITH them to accomplish common goals. Not just comming up with your own training plan from the ideas of people on the internet. Watching videos and reading articals is not a substitute for hands on horse knowledge.

Answer 26

no i dont think theres a law. i reckon people shold like take lessons or something before they get a horse because if they dont know anything about horses it can be dangerous for the horse and the person.

Answer 27

Well, what scares me is the parents that buy that really green horse for their 11yrs. Thinking that training a horse is very easy. They can do it & their child...... Then wounder why they are hurt & the horse has10x's the bad habbits as be for.

Answer 28

its dangerous for them but hopefully the seller will realise they are inexperianced and not sell it to them or the will get help from a profesianel or sell the horse when the realise they are out of their leage or listen to peeps saying dont do it one here or listen to their instructor

Answer 29

No, you dont have to have a certain amount of knowledge to purchase one ... I didnt rush into it though because of course you need a certain amount of knowledge !! But i would loan a horse first so you know what to do and get the hang of things until your a bit mor advanced! hope this helps

Answer 30

yes, it annoys me.



There is this girl at my yard who keeps her horse there, and she hardly ever takes care of it!



shes always out at parties and at friends houses and stuff and comes about 2 times a week and even then all she does is give him a quick brush because she is so nurvous ov her. Its like shes really spoilt and only has the horse so she can say she has one.



She doesnt know the parts of the bridle, doesnt know the parts of the saddle, i caught her one day trying to put the bridle on with the bit upside down!!!!!



It really annoys and worries me, i dont care about her i care about her horse!!!



then she leaves and expects us (we help out and get a bit off our livery charge) to muck out her stable and poo pick her field!!!



its appauling.



But i dont blame beginners, i think it is better to have lessons and then loan until you are ready to own one, not go out and buy one because you knwo you can (like this girl did).



I love teaching the ones that want to learn because i know that i am passing on my knowlege and im 16!

Answer 31

No and rightly so, let the young and the novice learn together sometimes being in the deep end is the best way of learning

Answer 32

so i take you know what your talking about so your GREAT!



where did you start at the top?