E.I.P.H Aka "Bleeder" NEED INFO!?

Question

Ok so I have just got a thoroughbred off the track. And I was told he was a bleeder. But what I was planing on doing with him would not make him bleed. The only thing that was making him bleed was full out running on the track. Now I belive the lady I got Gus (my thoroughbred) from only because she runs a rescue. If she was an owner I would not be so easy to belive her. So now what I'm asking for is any infor you can give me. I know what bleeding is and I know it is from high blood pressure in the lungs. My goal with Gus is to do English flat work/pleasure at local fun shows and jump 3 foot and under. Do you think he would be capble of this?? What are some signs to look for him bleeding. I'm also going to say I'm a 16 year old girl this is my horse so every thing is on me for his vet and board so I'm on a tight budget so please keep this in mind before saying anything about vets. I want the best for my big man but I can only do so much with what I get paid. Thnaks so much in advance

Answer 1

The only thing that might possibly make a horse doing this "light work" bleed might be if he was pushed through class after class in hot weather.

i have had many, many "bleeders".

actually every tb i have ever gotten was on the bleeder/lasix list when they ran.

none of them ever bled again, no matter what type of work i did with them, or how much they played out in the field.

i really would not worry about it. the likelyhood that he will ever have to run 30+ miles an hour for a mile is pretty much non exisatant at this point.

you can help his lungs and bronchial tubes heal up by making absolutley sure that his hay is dust free. when the horses are out of the barn, clean all the cob webs out of the rafters in his stall and everywhere else in his stall that collects them. i do this several times a year. also, sweep up really well under his feed tub and in his hay corner. if you keep the dust and mold away from areas that he eats it will help.

enjoy your wonderful new horse and yeah for you for having rescued another one:)

Answer 2

The symptoms of a bleeding episode, contrary to popular opinion, do not actually include visible blood! The blood is in the lungs, deep down inside, and can only be seen by scoping withing 30 minutes of the exercise - after that, it will have been reabsorbed by the lungs.



The usual symptom is fatigue and "running out of gas." The horse can't get enough oxygen, so he can't run as fast, so he feels logy and out of gas to the rider.



Another consequence of bleeding is often respiratory problems, like colds and snotty noses.



It's impossible to know whether he's going to be okay for what you want without knowing how badly he bled. This is a progressive thing; once a horse has bled he's probably going to do it again, and it'll get worse.



On the other hand, probably 80% of the ottbs out there have bled, and most go on to athletic second carers without problems or medication.



Do you know what meds he was on? If he was on more than one, that may be a sign he's a worse bleeder than a horse whose bleeding was controlled with only Lasix.



I would go ahead and see what he can do, building up carefully and not overtiring him. If he runs out of gas, don't over encourage him to do more. If he gets a respiratory problem, give him some time off, call in the vet; you'll probably need some antibiotics.



Learn to watch his breathing. Count his respirations per minute and compare to a chart of "normal" respirations. When he's standing in the stall, it should be slow and regular and easy. When he's exercising, it should be faster, but still even and not labored. The recovery period - the amount of time it takes to get from exercised to relaxed - should be reasonably short. You'll quickly learn what's normal for him, and learn when he's overtaxed.



To count the respirations, look at his flank near the stifle, and count the big breaths - if he's eating or something, he'll move his flank in and out for more than breathing, but it should be obvious. THis is easier than trying to count his nostril flares, at least for me! :)



Good Luck with him. Most ottbs will be capable of what you want.





Edit: Just want to add... for the vet to assess his bleeding, he'll have to be exercised for her and then she'll have to scope him immediately after hard exercise if she's to see anything at all. So if you want a vet assessment, let them know in advance so they can tell you what to do.

Answer 3

i agree with Starlight 1. Get a vet out to do a exam and get the professionals to tell you what he would be okay doing. Bleeding happens when the blood pressure gets so high that the little capillaries in a horses nose get "overpumped" When a horse bleeds they really just get a nose bleed. Sometimes its not bad at all and getting a 5-10 minutes break is enough to get them back to normal works just fine. But sometimes it can be really bad and bleed back into their lungs, not exactly extremely dangerous but im sure it can have a couple long term effects from the blood constantly being in their lungs. so all in all just get a vet out when you can afford it to tell you what you need to know. For now it will be safe to do some light-medium work and nothing too hard :)

have funn, be safe, good luck and happy riding

Answer 4

Corey, unless the horse has a history of bleeding when he's being walked or doing ordinary light work, then what you are planning to do should suit him just fine. The kind of jumping you want to do with him only involves short bursts of speed, and even then it's controlled enough that he shouldn't be stressed to the point that he starts to bleed. Before starting a reconditioning program, though, I would save up enough money from your job to have your vet come and "scope" the horse, so you'll have an idea of how extensive the damage to his lungs is. It may be that he really hasn't had much in the way of serious bleeding, and whatever damage is there would be minimal in that case. Minimal damage means there's less chance of him bleeding during competition. Plus, keep in mind that EIPH is a condition which can be easily controlled with medication- that's what the drug Lasix was developed for. Lasix is legal at recognized shows, as long as you follow the proper procedures and let the officials at the USEF know that you are using it for therapeutic reasons. Check the rule book for a description of what procedures you need to follow to gain permission to use Lasix when your horse competes. You can also get your vet to show you how to administer the drug- most vets are happy to provide basic instruction like this to their clients, and will do it for free.



Symptoms of bleeding in horses can include : wheezing or coughing during exertion, reduced speeds, and a bloody discharge from the animal's nose following hard exercise. The condition is triggered by extreme stress, and is believed to be genetic in origin. Some bleeders also will show signs of dehydration and exhaustion following hard work. These conditions are correctable with medication- and you will need to ask your vet for recommendations as to what kind of medication schedule to follow when you compete, Corey. Tell him or her what you are planning to do competitively the first time he or she ever comes to see your horse- that will allow the vet to be a helper to you. In most cases, if a horse is being given a medication like Lasix, the USEF will usually ask for medical documentation of the reason why, and your vet can provide this.



Good luck to you and your horse- he sounds like a winner !!

Answer 5

My standardbred was a bleeder too. To the point he did not compete without drugs.



however. He never had a bleeding episode in the 17 years I had him. and he worked Hard at times. the only symptom I could ever notice was he was allergic to pollen. And would wheeze in the spring when the pine trees were pollenating



Your boy should be fine for that level of work. just watch him and as long as he isnt run full out he will do fine

Answer 6

What you want to do with the horse should not make him bleed and, if he does it will not be as severe as when he was racing.



The only real sign you can get is a nose bleed. This can be a trickle or a gush. Sometimes they can bleed with no outward sign, only known if they are scoped.



The one thing I would suggest is that you make sure that his hay is very clean or soak it for 20 minutes before feeding him and dampen all feeds. Dust is not the cause of bleeding but any lung irritation cannot be good for him.

Good luck to you both

Answer 7

You're right, it is from high blood pressure. Rather than keep your fingers crossed, you want to take care of it or you'll be constantly worrying about whether you're doing the right thing. Equiwinner patches will do it. You can find them on the web. Lots of barrel racers are using them. Check out this barrel racing discussion board http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=288876&posts=5