ewe neck and martingales?

Question

I am looking at a new horse for 4H, in 4H you cannot use martingales. The seller doesn't ride her much (she was left in a field by the owner, and this person is selling for the owner) and only lunges her with her tack and a martingale. I was told that in the field she tosses her head up and prances. when we were tacking up it looked like she had a (slight) ewe neck, but she is also pretty overweight and very out of shape.

I haven't rode test her yet, is it worth going back? is it fixable?

She is 8 years old and 15.1-15.2 and they are guessing she weighs about 1250-1300 pounds. I don't know if it is just a fat or a slight ewe neck (only when she puts her head up can you see it, but they keep saying that she throws her head). Also, when we were taking off the tack they noticed a sore on her mouth(could that be why she throws her head).

Is there a way to fix an ewe neck? Is that what the martingale is doing, fixing muscular structure? (I think that it is a standing martingale, I don't see how in an emergency it could be loosened..?)

No, I do not have pictures available, sorry. She has been trained western; walk, jog and lope, and has been through the show/competition circuit. then she was left in a field and now is fat.

Answer 1

For reference, here's a picture of a horse with a ewe neck: http://www.equestrianoutreach.com/EOWebArtFolder/Eq%20Info%20-%20Confirmation/Conformation%20Photos/Grace-05-27-2010.gif



A ewe neck can be caused by two factors:

1) genetic flaw (poor conformation)

2) being worked in a poor frame, so that the wrong muscles are over-developed



A martingale with not fix either issue.



When a horse has poor conformation due to poor breeding, there's nothing you can do to 100% fix the situation. However, you can work your horse in a collected, rounded frame and give him specific exercises to help develop the upper neck muscles, lessening the appearance of a ewe neck. It's really best to see a qualified trainer/riding instructor about that.



When a horse has been worked in a poor frame, over-developing the wrong muscles, simply changing to a more normal routine can help.



Martingales should only be used in a situation where a horse has the bad habit of occasionally throwing its head (when the problem is genuinely behavioral, and isn't caused by teeth problems, a sore back, a harsh bit, etc etc). Head-tossing can break your nose!



Some people do use martingales to force their horses into a long and low posture, believing this position to be desirable, but this is forced collection-- it doesn't do much to actually train the horse to move correctly or to develop the right muscles, it just forces the head down. The difference is like this: you going to the gym and correctly lifting free weights every day, versus someone awkwardly duct taping a ten pound rock to your hand for a few minutes a day. One is a controlled, disciplined exercise that actually helps sculpt and strengthen; the other is at best a crudely "helpful" method, and at worst a cruelty.



Martingales can also be dangerous, because some horses react badly to them, feeling so "trapped" and held down that the rear in an attempt to escape. 4-H probably bans martingales for the same reasons the best riders don't use them; they cover up flaws and potentially dangerous habits that should actually be corrected by a rider/trainer instead.



If you're just planning on showing in 4-H, a ewe neck will not matter much. There are many other worse conformational faults. The horse's prancy, head-tossing behavior and having been "left in a field" bothers me more; it sounds like this horse needs training before its ready to be ridden in shows or by a younger person.

Answer 2

Don't worry, I hate to say it, but your Grandpa was wrong. Martingales aren't cruel at all - a properly fitting one shouldn't affect the horse when they are moving regularly. It's only when the throw their head up high enough that their nose is facing above your head, then they can avoid contact with the bit and run away with you. Or to keep their head from smacking your face. It's purely a safety thing! In fact, riding a horse without one who has those habits, could actually be considered unsafe.



A martingale should be loose when their head is in it's regular position. When they throw their head up, they feel some resistance on their noseband (or the bit if you have a running martingale - they attach to the reins) and therefore can raise their head up any more. Then when they put it down, it's slack. They learn that its good to keep their head down, if it's up, they feel resistance.



Martingales don't 'fix bone or muscle structure', though they can help with developing some muscles. I'd definitely try a martingale with her - a standing martingale should do (the name is misleading - their good for anything)

Answer 3

A martingale or any piece of tack is neither cruel nor helpful - it's all in the way it is used by the HANDS on the other end of the reins.



A ewe neck is a symptom of poor riding, and the continued use of a martingale or tie-down or chambon or strong bit or any gimmick is another sign of poor riding. Those pieces of tack can be temporary measures for a skilled horseman to help a horse learn new habits, but they won't fix anything by themselves and a truly skilled horseman doesn't need them.



Hooray for 4-H and their rules that require riders to learn how to ride, instead of allowing them to skate by with gimmicks.



Yes, a ewe neck can be fixed, and you're actually at an advantage that this horse hasn't been ridden much recently. There are very few horses who are actually built by nature with a ewe neck. The vast majority, if not all of them, are made that way by poor riding. Yes, a painful bit/bad hands on the other end of the reins can cause a horse to carry itself with a high head, hollow back, and eventually develop a ewe neck. If she hasn't been ridden that way lately, then those inappropriately developed muscles and physical habits of poor posture aren't as freshly confirmed in the horse.





Find resources for learning about *classical* dressage - not the latest fads in the dressage show ring. They are the polar opposite of the original dressage, which is a system of training that promotes the horse's maximum performance and soundness for a long useful lifespan. Alois Podhajsky, Jane Savoie, Jessica Jahiel, Dr. Ritter, there are many great resources out there.



Make sure her bit and saddle are comfortable. Don't use a broken mouthpiece with any kind of leverage, even the tiny bit of leverage in a Kimberwicke. The only place a jointed mouthpiece belongs is on a true snaffle - a bit without any vertical leverage, so nothing with a curb chain or strap. Remember, this posture comes from discomfort, so you won't change it if she is still uncomfortable. Get a saddle fitter to check your saddle on her. Keep in mind that if you're successful in changing her posture, the shape of her back will change for the better and might require specialized padding, re-flocking, or a whole new saddle.





Help the horse learn to carry her head low for starters. All she knows now is star-gazing. It's fine if she drags her nose on the ground at this point - you've got to undo 5 or 6 years of bad postural habits caused by pain/discomfort in her mouth, on her back, and who knows where else. Engage her hind end so she starts to carry herself with her hinds, not just pushing herself along like a wheelbarrow. Just ask her to 'talk' to you with the reins - don't try to acheive any kind of collection! Let her know that you want her to be comfortable and carry herself well. It's very uncomfortable for a horse to go along with its nose in the air - remember Black Beauty's days as carriage horse to the snobbish b***h who wanted his head pulled up in the air? He was in misery, and so is every horse that goes in that posture.



As her muscling changes, and you can see it, especially if you take photos every month or two, she will be able and happy to bring her *poll* up, but not her nose. Gradually ask her to come into your hands more, over the course of months. You'll see the ewe neck disappear and a lovely topline emerge.



At 8, this horse is still young enough to reshape her body and have a long useful life as your 4-H project and lifelong companion. Enjoy!

Answer 4

a martingale isnt a cruel thing its suppose to protect the ride from the horse swinging its head back and hitting them, my brothers qh had to have one however after a year or two he took the martingale off and he still has yet to swing his head up. I believe every horse can be fixed into a show worthy horse because they are so intelligent it just takes time and patience.

Answer 5

I agree with bliss. Poor riding and probably pain have cause this horse to run around like a llama. When you change her posture her topline will change.