Question:
happy green shot or slaughter for horses which do you find better?
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
happy green shot or slaughter for horses which do you find better?
Seventeen answers:
shoshone
2009-02-27 05:00:42 UTC
112,887 horses were slaughtered in Canada in 2008. This is a 42% increase over 2007 and a 125% increase over 2006. The increase is made up of U.S. horses coming across in double decker trucks. Slaughter is supposedly humane here. We have laws but they are not enforced. Just check out the slaughter videos if you can watch them. I can not watch them. Any animal or bird that is slaughtered should be killed humanely and as quick as possible not just horses. A well placed bullet is the quickest possible death. I do not see how a captive bolt can be effective on a horse. The operator placing the bolt has to be able to work on every sized horse from a weanling to a full grown draft animal. A horse when it smells blood and fear will not stand still for anyone.
Jenn
2009-02-26 07:12:25 UTC
I can see where you are coming from. Slaughter is not fun. But where things are going to need to change are the puppy mills mass producing horses. Being a more responsible breeder and also making sure that the horses are get started with an education so they can find homes would make a great difference.



We used to take in babies and horses that were considered to not be good enough to be champions and were not wanted by the big farms and we would take them put some training into them and find them good homes. But you have to realize that no matter how much you want a perfect world there is just the reality that they do cost a lot of money and we can't feed them all. We ended up putting all of our extra money into caring for these guys and selling them for a small amount with the main goal being to try to find them a home where they will have a successful life. And we did that but eventually had to quit because of the burden it took on the family financially.

So I know that is not exactly what you asked us about but I think focusing on getting this problem under control would help save alot of lives.



Jenny
.
2009-02-26 14:01:56 UTC
If I'm allowed to say so, I agree with everyone here. I do think euthanasia or a bullet is more kind than slaughter, and I do believe it is cheaper too. But I also agree that while all meat animals are transported and killed the same way horses are, there is far less public outcry about it.



However, favoritism is to be expected because horse meat (in the US where I live, anyway) is not as heavily relied upon as beef or pork. No one really eats it or uses it here, as it is not readily available. We would feel the pinch of lessening the slaughter of cows or pigs a lot more than we would horses.



Something needs to be done about the surplus, that's for certain. Starvation or death by untreated illness is no way for any living creature to go. I think out of all the options, the most appealing one to me is no- or low-cost euthanasia AND carcass disposal. Euthanasia could be a shot or it could be a bullet administered by a person who knows what they are doing. If it (and the disposal of the carcass) were kept low cost then it would presumable be more appealing to owners.



Whyen you factor in the cost of paying the slaughter buyers for their time, the purchase and maintenance of the trucks and trailers they use, and the gas they burn crossing the border (again, I am speaking of where I live in the US) then it's easy to see that no- or low-cost euthanasia is cheaper in the long run. Sure, you have to pay for a winch and a truck to dispose of the body, but you're also not going to be trailering that body from PA to Mexico, either.



It is my understanding that few if any people selling horses to meat buyers at auctions are making any profit at all. Meat buyers are getting many horses for $100 or under, which in many cases more or less equals out what the horse's owner had to spend getting the horse to the auction in the first place. So now more than ever, the choices of selling to meat buyers at auction vs. euthanasia are, from what I understand, pretty much the same price to a horse owner.



Just my two cents. Sorry to pull a Buffy (no offense meant, Buffy).
Learning Daily
2009-02-26 12:24:46 UTC
horse slaughter is not gone. the food I feed to the meat eaters where I work is made of guess what.. Horse meat. Personally.. horses on the way to slaughter get the same treatment that cows, pigs, lambs or chickens get.. But I don't see people jumping up and down for their feelings, rights or humane ethical treatment of them...its all due to personal sentiment and some illusion that horses are more aware of their circumstances. I've a steer at work I deal with daily. He is every bit as loving as the horses there and more then some. He openly seeks human contact and desires a good brushing to the point he will follow you to get it. so get off the train of the do-gooders trying to save all the horses from slaughter



As for the "happy green Needle". Let me give you a few bits of wisdom and insight about them. I can speak from a position of some knowledge, after euthanizing 5K cats and dogs in 8 months in a shelter.. WHICH SUCKS and eats your soul slowly.. no one should ever spend 8 hours a day killing anything.

It is NOT painless. Euthasol burns like liquid fire. Which is why animals are sedated before hand, they would bite, kick, scratch and do anything to avoid the needle and escape the pain. It isn't a instant death. Unless given as a cardiac stick that medication burns its way around the blood stream until it concentrates enough to stop autonomic function such as breathing, then heart beat. It can take 10 minutes for death to actually occur after the injection, even though the animal isn't moving or breathing and has gone down. thus the reason why the vet checks for a heart beat 5 minutes later. Often its still slowly beating but they arnt going to tell a owner that. And the toxin is not reverable anyway. A bullet to the head is 1000 times faster. the bolt gun provides at least as much analgesia as the injection of ket given before a euth shot. And btw.. death by being bled to death as you say is the case in a slaughter house takes 3-4 minutes.

I've had my own horses put down by needle. And I've sent some to slaughter. I've killed more then my fair share of other people animals by toxic injection to tolerate ignorance anymore. And Frankly.. either way. Injection or slaughter beats the hell out of starving to death.
?
2009-02-26 08:26:02 UTC
I don't know anyone that has sent their horse or pony to slaughter house alive. I do have experience of a vet coming out and putting horse to sleep on site. Then slaughter man coming and taking the body. You pay him. You don't make any money from it. Recently a friend lost a old much loved family pony to colic. When she contacted a crematorium about having him taken there they wanted £500.

In reality not many people are going to pay that kind of money.



I do not agree with horses been packed alive into waggons and been

transported miles abroad to be slaughtered. But I do not see having

your horse put to sleep on your premises and the slaughter man taking them away as cruel.





edit........ i have never had a horse taken away by the "meat man" alive. my vet through illness has had to put the horse to sleep. i have many friends who have had horses put to sleep and he has come the same. every horse has had a injection to put it to sleep. the meat man would not be able to use any of the meat.

i don't think any horse owner that has got close to their friend would "knowingly say good bye in the way you describe, but there again i am living in England where the laws on animal cruelty are different to most. if your horse has been put to sleep you have to have permission from your local council you cannot just go and dig a hole and and put your friend into it.

what is it that you hope to achieve from your question?
Holli
2009-02-26 07:01:37 UTC
Euthanasia is definitely more humane. I have an old pony named Dyna. She and I won so many championships together when I was younger. I ended up outgrowing her but couldn't bear to sell her because she became my best friend. I know that her time will come, and if she has to be put down then it will definitely be in the most humane way possible. I then either want to have her buried in one of her favorite pastures or cremated so that I could keep her ashes.
bullvedere
2009-02-26 14:00:50 UTC
the legal definition of "livestock"is any animal that is raised for food or goods and includes cattle,swine,sheep,goats,horses,mules,domesticated deer and elk and all members of the ratite family(ostriches,emus,rheas) dogs are considered as a "tool for working livestock"and can be generally accepted as pets in urban/suburban areas.cats are well just cats, they aren't used for working livestock and are considered companion pets or rodent population control.let me ask you this?most of the meat from rendering horses is used for food not only for human but also large predatory animals like lions,tigers and bears (oh my)so with your thinking by using lethal injection you are now making the usable meat to keep other captive predatory animals unusable by contaminating the meat with poisons so now all the zoos and sanctuaries would not be able to afford to feed all the animals that need fresh cheap meat.it is obvious that you don't understand the process of stunning and bleeding out for slaughter and you have the attitude that horses are pets instead of livestock and that comes from not being raised in a working livestock environment.if you don't agree with the way they are slaughtered then you can either not sell your unwanted horses for slaughter or find a way to make the process of slaughter better so you can sleep better at night but to contaminate usable meat by the injection of poisons is just wasting a product that can benefit other animals and humans.
2009-02-26 12:12:19 UTC
I am pro Slaughter.



My reasoning:

In the few years following the banning of horse slaughter in the US the horse market has steadily gone down and gotten worse. People can't even give away middle age, well broke/trained horses anymore. I remember going to the sale yard as a kid and watching these horses sell for no less than $10,000.... wishing I could have one. If you can't afford to keep a horse you sure as heck aren't going to be able to afford a $300-$500 vet bill! I'm not joking... I had my 3 year old put down 3 years ago due to a severe colic and twisted gut. Between the shot itself, the after hours rate, and the initial cost I paid almost $400! My fiance's dad had to put down their older Rottie last winter because he couldn't stand anymore... it cost almost $300 for him... A DOG!



Because of the bad economy, prices for everything have sky-rocketed. That includes the cost of having an animal humanely euthanized.



I don't know about other sale yards, but our local one has opened the meat by the pound sale again... selling horses. These horses aren't slaughtered in the US, they are shipped to Canada and Mexico... mexico being the worst of the two because of their lack of care, sanitation, and the maner in which they kill the animals. If we were to open slaughter houses in the US again, we could regulate and set laws and rules that must be followed.



Also, you have to consider that the "happy green shot" not only costs you money from the vet, but you have to have the carcas disposed of. Which, unless you have you're own backhoe, costs another $100-$300.



People are turning horses free thinking it's the best thing for them. It's not! Domestic horses rely on humans for feed, water and shelter... the 3 main things they need to survive. Most horses need a proper diet to maintain a healthy weight. By turning them loose you change everything which we all know can and frequently does cause colic... so the horse suffers to death for hours, days or weeks. If the horses don't colic they usually starve to death for lack of forage... a process that can take MONTHS of suffering. On top of those things, they have to fight predators they normally wouldn't.



Sending horses to slaughter may not be the quickest, most pain free death there is, but it's a hell of a lot better than suffering in pain for days, weeks, months or years. If you can't afford to feed and take care of your horse, then why make him suffer? If you can't afford to feed and take care of the horse, then you surely can't afford to put it down!
little_dub73
2009-02-26 15:13:24 UTC
this is an interesting topic for debate and i do think the horse community needs to be able to talk about these things in as calm a way as possible.



it is difficult to not get emotional about a subject which obviously affects a lot of people deeply - but is it definately possible to have a rational discussion on the matter, i think it's something that we all, as horse owners, riders and enthusiasts, need to talk about. a lot of things happen in the equine industry which are very very cruel and would not be tolerated in any other field of sport, recreation, livestock trade, childrens hobby, professional sport etc.



i have seen many stables where if the premises were a zoo open for public veiwing people would be asking uncomfortable questions like "why is that horse weaving? is it stressed? is it able to to social normally? is it able to fulfill it's natural needs and instincts?" we ask these things of lone monkeys sat in barred cages with nothing to climb on no other animals to groom and interact with, why not a lone horse in a stable obviously away from its natural herd environment? why are their standards for chickens in cages but not horses in stables, yards or paddocks?



if the equine industry in general was opened up for public scrutiny i believe there would be details of horrific practices. and to some extent we can all be guilty of it, through well meaning ignorance. there is a lot of education and change that we have the power to enact as individuals - in our circle of friends and peers, and by dedicating time to learn and study horse behaviour and means to improve the welfare of the horses we have in our own care.



that said i don't think the original poster of this question has written a very clear question or a very fair question. i couldnt follow it, many of the things you brought up i couldn't understand in the context of my country and i dont know if its a language thing but i dont know what the "happy green shot" is?



and dont ask a question that is so obviously an emotional topic only to berate the people who reply. was this an opportunity for healthy debate and disucussion or did you just want to get a chance to "stir the pot" and judge people?



passing judgement isn't going to cease the suffering of a single horse. educating and advocating for change can make a real difference though.



advocate for the horse and for horse owners and communities who are trying to do the right thing! write a convincing arguement or genuinely question people's beliefs with an willingness to be open to how they respond. otherwise just write an essay on your personal views and post it somewhere.



also i think you need to try and take a deep breath before you keep editting your question in reply to people.

then you might get your point across more clearly in a way that makes people open up and listen, rather than shut down and shut out your view?



my response is aimed at the original question - not the other people who have replied. i learnt more about the topic from the responses than from the original question.



i did not know that slaughter houses were illegal in the US and from the sounds of things I agree with the comment that at least if they are in the US then they can be humanely regulated. we have a similar problem in australia with the export of live animals for meat to other countries. while the slaughter houses here are not ideal, they are at least tightly regulated and as humane as possible. when livestock are sent elsewhere for slaughter they have the horror of the travel plus injuiries and stress, then their fate in poorly run slaughter houses.



thanks to everyone who made this debate interesting - i learnt a lot!
2009-02-25 23:50:25 UTC
The stupidity behind the questions on slaughter still hasn't ceased to amaze as of yet...



First off, whether you want to admit it or not, horses ARE livestock. Dogs, cats, reptiles, rodents, birds, etc. are NOT. However, if you insist on going that route and comparing them, then think about this: in some countries/cultures, these household "pets" are considered delicacies at any restaurant. Puppy/kitty on a stick roasting over a nice fire...mmm, think some cultures. Even those little apple snails that you buy as pets at the local petstore...think "escargot" as that's what some restaurants and cultures think of them as. Do you ever consider that some cultures such as India would be just as appalled by us eating cows as we are of them eating horses? Cows are viewed as sacred over there...the horse is their meat, who are we to criticize that? Have you ever heard of the Ardennes breed of horse? It is a draft breed that is mostly raised today for it's meat.



Ever since the slaughter plants closed, the bottom of the horse market has fallen out...It is very hard to sell a horse for what it is worth or for what you've stuck in it. After the last plants closed, a record number of 78,000 head of horses in just 2007 alone were transported to Mexico and Canada. Not only did we effectively kill the horse market in the US by banning slaughter, but we are also sending quite a bit of money out of the country, in turn helping other countries' economies instead of our own. That money could go towards helping our economy, but instead is being shipped out of country. And another thing, Mexico slaughter houses are a heck of a lot worse than ours ever were. At least if we had slaughter plants in our homeland, we could somewhat control the methods of slaughter, the regulations, how humane they are, etc.



Think on another thing: if an individual is too poor or cheap to be able to stop their horses from starving, do you think they can afford to, or if they can afford it but just don't care, do you really think they are going to spend the money to euthanize their horses? And how is letting a horse slowly starve to death more "humane" than sending it for a much quicker death at a slaughterhouse? Are you personally going to pay to have all of the "poor" horses put to sleep "humanely" with the "Happy green shot"? Of course you do realize that if BYBs would stop breeding so many low end, poor quality, worthless animals that the horse market might not be as bad off as it is now with nowhere for all of those unwanted animals to go, right?



One more thought...for horses that have broken a leg that is irreparable, I agree, put the horse down then and there as humanely as possible...of course sometimes this means a quick bullet to the head of the horse because the nearest vet with the "happy green shot" is an hour or more away...or would you rather the horse suffer in agony while you wait for the vet to show because it isn't "humane" to put the horse out of it's misery without the "happy green shot"?



~So, in short, I believe slaughterhouses are most definitely a "necessary evil" as some put it...of course restrictions and strict regulations need to be applied and some things changed in how it is done and the housing of said animals, etc...but in reality, by banning slaughter, do you really believe that you just "saved" these horses from an inhumane death? Think again...you just prolonged the suffering they will experience until they are dead...it's a wonder you can still sleep at night...now who's cruel?
ღஜღEasy Riderღஜღ
2009-02-26 07:34:30 UTC
I am a small and large Vet Tech and I hate to say this but we put down an average of 5 cats/dogs daily due to age, behavior or the people were just tired of them so yes they are treated poorly to. It has to change all of it I agree ...my biggest problem is the answer above. No Souls??? Please you are just part of the problem with that belief system ...disgusting.
Starlight 1
2009-02-27 21:14:42 UTC
Hanch, this is one of the most IDIOTIC, IGNORANT questions I have seen on here in quite some time, but I'm going to answer it anyway. First of all, I'm going to give you a few FACTS about euthanasia, or the " happy green shot" as you call it. These facts are rather graphic, so I hope you don't have a tender stomach. The reason you DON'T see people coming to haul away a horse that's been euthanized for meat is because THEY CAN'T- IT'S AGAINST FEDERAL LAW. The United States has FEDERAL LAWS which PROHIBIT ANY ANIMAL which has been euthanized from EVER BEING USED FOR FOOD, either for other animals, OR for PEOPLE, Hanch. I'm a medical coder in addition to being a horse owner and horse professional, and part of what I get paid for is to KNOW and FOLLOW these laws in my work. The REASON WHY these laws exist is simple: EUTHANASIA SOLUTION IS POISONOUS, plain and simple. If it can KILL an animal the size of a horse, it can KILL US, TOO. REMEMBER THAT the next time you start romanticizing about how painless and inexpensive euthanasia supposedly is. When euthanasia is performed on a horse, regardless of the reason why, the meat from that horse can never be fed to another animal, because it would KILL that animal. There are WARNINGS which state this plainly, in SIMPLE ENGLISH, on EVERY BOTTLE of euthanasia solution which is sold in this country, and this too is REQUIRED by FEDERAL LAW. I KNOW this is true, because I have actually HANDLED and worked with euthanasia solution at one point. I worked in an animal hospital for a while some years ago, and one of the things which I got called upon to do on occasion was fill syringes with euthanasia solution for the vets when clients would come in with sick or old animals ( pets) which needed to be destroyed. Because this stuff is so toxic, I had to be extremely careful how I handled it, and it too had warnings about its toxicity on the label. That was not a pleasant experience, believe me- and WOULD YOU have been strong enough to do that, Hanch? Somehow, I doubt this, especially from the way you've worded your question.



Most horse owners are people who would rather DIE themselves than send a horse to slaughter, Hanch- but like me, there are some who recognize that it's a necessary evil on occasion. Consider what the situation is in this country vis a-vis horses at the moment. Since slaughter was outlawed in October 2007, the number of horses being put on trucks for the ride across the borders to Canda and Mexico has QUADRUPLED, and it may even have QUINTUPLED in some parts of the country. The reasons for this are many, and I'm only going to mention a few of them, in order to save space. FIrst on the list is the economic downturn and financial crisis, which is causing people to lose both their homes and their jobs right and left, especially these days. When a financial crisis of this magnitude hits, the horses are the first to feel the impact, because they are considered by most people to be luxury items and playthings, rather than the LIVESTOCK which they are legally classified as in all 50 states. To put this another way, when people are forced to choose between feeding a horse and feeding their kids, or between feeding a horse and paying the mortgage, rent, or credit card bills, the horses are going to LOSE, big time. While euthanasia might seem like a good option in this situation, the reality is that it's NOT, Hanch. When was the LAST TIME YOU REALLY INVESTIGATED what it costs to euthanize and dispose of a horse in your community??? Where I live, in central Delaware, it costs upwards of a $1,000 or more to euthanize a horse and have the remains either picked up for rendering or creamated. You can't just simply dump a dead horse in the ground and forget about it, either- most communities these days have laws which expressly FORBID this, for reasons of public health and safety, and to protect groundwater supplies from contamination. That's part of the reason why farms in states like Kentucky and Maryland ( our neighbor) have cemetaries on their properties. This allows them to conduct home burials when required, without the danger of causing health problems to anyone else. The average horse owner, however, has NO SUCH luxury, nor does he or she have access to anyone who could provide it. I don't know what state you are in, Hanch, but before you go criticizing people who have made the agonizing choice to send their horse across the border, why DON'T you find OUT what it would really cost them to euthanize the animal at home first?



As for selling horses, that's a crock. The bottom dropped out of the domestic horse market a couple of years ago, just about the time the last of the slaughter houses closed, and ever since then the situation has only gotten worse. The ban on slaughter, in fact, has been a DISASTER for the horse industry in this country. People can't afford to feed their horses because of the high costs, and they can't sell them because there is no market to do this in. As a result, horses are now being ABANDONED in RECORD NUMBERS nationwide. To make matters worse, most of the prime hay producing areas in the country have suffered a severe drought during the last couple of years, resulting in crop failures and a massive hay shortage. Even when people want to keep their horses at home, a lot of them can't afford to buy hay for them, because it's expensive and scarce. Spending another $ 1,000 to euthanize and dispose of the horses isn't going to help anyone. Selling a horse to a meat dealer means that at least the owner will get SOMETHING of a return on his or her investment- horsemeat is a sought after delicacy in much of the world, and there are plenty of people who will pay big bucks for horses in good health which they can send overseas as meat.



The " Happy Green Shot" isn't so happy, if you ask me. Horses are suffering and dying because people can't afford this, any more than they can afford to feed their horses.
Rosi M
2009-02-26 14:21:15 UTC
As the other posters have stated, the GREEN shot is expensive. Last I knew in Bakersfield in 2006, it was $250.00 then the hauling the carcuss away was another $250.00 and that was AFTER a $3,000.00 vet bill!



If slaughter were reinstated at least I'd have stood some chance of recouping a little of the total $7,000.00 I had in the mare and foal.
jl_vjthela
2009-02-26 07:00:16 UTC
It depends:



I have had to have a horse put down (not so humanly sadly as their wasn't a vet around for a 50 mile radius and she couldn't leave she had an emergency colic and a birth at the same farm) because she broke a leg.



But it doesn't always just cost $50. It costs a lot more depending on where you live. I think it gives some of these horses a final purpose. Have you seen the conditions horses are living in lately? There are herds being let loose because people can't afford to feed them, much less euthanize them and they can't sell them. I have seen old horses wasting away in pastures, depressed and can barely move due to arthritis. Rescues are filled to the brim with horses no one wants. Mediocre horses are flooding the market because people are afraid to let them have a final purpose.



Animals don't have human emotions or feelings, and sadly don't have a soul. I would rather have them go through 5-10 mins of suffering then 5-10 years or more! Its not the most "humane" way to go, but its better than starving to death in a field, being abused and neglected or worse.



EDIT: I said 5-10 MINUTES of suffering. NOT 5-10 seconds

Animals do not have a soul that goes on to a heaven or hell. I believe that they have spirit and a personality and feelings. Just no wear close to what humans have.



I know my opinion is not agreed with because I don't believe that horses live on forever (no matter how much id like to) I care for them yes, but they are just animals. I would rather see them have a final purpose then to suffer. I would also like to see the horse market stop being flooded with mediocre horses. Also I would like to see money STOP leaving the US boarders.



I love my horses, and I would prefer to have mine die on my property. BUT I understand that things happen. Its a unpretty truth that is very real. We will never all agree on what should be done. Some believe we should just kill all horses (ive met them), some believe we should save them all. Im sorry my opinion has been so unpopular but we can argue this until we are blue in the face and we still wont agree.



Frankly I think this subject should not be mentioned on here as it just causes a lot of controversy. We will never agree on this as everyone has their own personal beliefs.
Emily R
2009-02-26 15:03:37 UTC
i very much agree with you. it is very heartless to cram horses on top of eachother with broken legs and necks and them unload them all in a small field, then take them and line them all up, and shock them with a shockerthing, tie them upside down, slit there necks, let them bleed to death, and then throw them back into boiling water so there hair will burn off, even if they are not dead yet. i am sure there are other sluaghter houses that arent so yucky, but all th ones i have heard of are very icky. i would shoot my horse if i could not afford to feed it and could not sell it. but for some people, the slughter house is ther only option. like for example, my friend gretchin

she has this mustang, who she needs to sell because her mom has cancer, her dad lost his job, they are losing there farm, and cnt afford to pay for the horse. tey tried to sell it, but nobody will buy it. they are sooo poor, they cant afford to have a vet come put it down. no one will buy it, they cant stay at there house much longer, and they cant afford to pay for it. she has called rescue farms and all that stuff, and no one will take her horse yet. she said her mom wants to sell it, but if she cant, then they are sending it to the stock yards. were it will prolly end up at a sluaghter house. so you must consider other peoples situations. i dont have to worrie about not bieng able to pay for my horses because they are out in a field all day long eating grass. so we dont have to buy food for them. and in the winter. we just buy some bales of hay for them, and they eat those. and if we lost are farm, my uncle owns a farm, and he could keep our horses for us. and if he couldnt take them, my aunt could. and if she couldnt, them my grandma and granpa could:) we have a very big family:) i personanly dont agree with sluaghter houses, but somtimes, a family has no choice, you have to remember that
fishgurl
2009-02-26 15:29:17 UTC
sorry way to long to read
HeyDonny
2009-02-26 06:59:21 UTC
Question is too long


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...