What can I do with a huge stubborn untrusting horse? How could I go about starting to train him?

Question

Trying to make a long story short ...
First off this horse if beautiful and old..
He was trained at one time as a barrel racer, had a problem with 1 knee, my friend bought him at an auction and gave him to me. He has bad trust issues. This horse is BIG and i've done a few things with him but he just doesn't do well. I had him tied to my hitching post and he tried to pull it out of the ground. I like natural horsemanship and WILL NOT be mean to him. I want him to trust and love me. I've worked with him a lot and HAVE got to get a saddle on him and get on his back with someone leading me, which by the way was HARD and you can tell he does not like it, even though I actually got on his back he does not like it and he's very uncomfortable. I'm kind of afraid of him because he's so big and COULD hurt me pretty bad, any horse could, but this is the only horse i've really been afraid of, like to afraid to just hop on or work with, I don't know what to do.. if I try to just ride him a little just walking around he doesn't want to listen or do what I ask. I could be a little more pushy but this horse is BIG and i'm afraid one of these times he'll just take off and I won't be able to handle him. My friend said he got on his back once and he ran like mad and he could not get him to stop, getting him to stop was hard and he was a man. So any tips would be nice. I love my horse and want to be able to ride him. He does seem to have been abused. So if you have any tips, please let me know...Remember I am a little afraid of him so don't just tell me to whip him. I want to train him if possible to be better and understand.. I want to have a bond with him.. :) He is sweet just while your taking to him or kissing him, leading him or whatever he's fine. Its only when you try to mess with him. Probably trying to get him to do something he doesnt want to..

Help please!

Thanks so much!! God bless!!

Answer 1

Your horse probably hurts when you get on him. You said a knee injury ended his riding career and he went to auction. Have his knee, back and hocks checked. It could be the injury also affected his back, or his shape has changed since he went out of training and the saddle now hurts him. I would have the vet give him a thorough going over, afterall, you didn't have to pay for him, so consider this his purchase price!



It's good your friend had the vet and farrier out. But your statement "he's not in pain" is conclusory. Did they check his teeth? Does your saddle fit him? Does the bit fit him? Are you cueing him they way he has been trained?



I ask this because the description your friend gave you is of a horse in pain. And the pulling back is a horse that is expecting pain.



You will have to be really patient, and build up the good experiences. I had an ex racehorse, it took about 5 years before he could relax enough for me to know he wasn't going to go off his head for no reason I could see.

Good luck!



I commend your not wanting to hurt your horse, but its a bit misguided to say you don't want to beat him, but you haven't made sure (at least you haven't reported that you've made sure) that he's not in pain when the saddle is on or he's being ridden.



The fact that your friend reported what he did really makes me think pain is involved here, or the fear of pain. If your horse isn't hurting, then you will have to go back to basics and by working on retraining him step by step to build up his confidence and erase that memory of pain and fear. I am sorry to report there is no quick fix....

Answer 2

I'm not clear on your using the term whipping? Several forms of natural horsemenship do use a stick and string as an extension of your arm. Trainers do not tell you to "whip him" but you may have to apply some force behind using this tool to get his attention. You're not going to beat him with it but you will need to be firm. Talking sweet to this horse all the time and never correcting him will get you hurt. Also, whatever he does first, he will get progressively worse if he isn't handled. You say you want a bond with this horse, then you will have to become head mare and if you watch horses in a pasture, then you see they communicate very clearly with body language--a simple stare, moving infront of another horse, barring teeth, biting, lifting the back leg, kicks. Barrel horses are taught to go, go, go so he is basically a big motor. You'll have to take the go out of the horse. Start by asking him to stand still. If he takes 1 step forward on his own, then ask him to take 3 steps back and stay on him until he does it. Turning him in circles when he's moving out of his asked gate is another way to make him think twice about things. You will need to step up and get this horse to respect you, your space, and what you ask of him. Hire a good, reputable trainer because, not to sound mean, but from what you've said, this house sounds like too much for you to handle alone. Good luck.

Answer 3

I have a boarder who attempted to gun train her horses about a year ago. If you wanted to know what NOT to do I could tell ya that story. Ha, she went about it in the worst possible way, ended up with two slipped disks in her neck and a broken tail bone. Black B had some great advise... I would definitely have a partner and someone to help you, otherwise it's a wreck waiting to happen. Being competent with guns is also an absolute must. I've never tried to gun train any of my horses myself, but I would love to, if I only knew the right way to go about it. Most of the horses we have would probably not even bat an eyelash at a boom or gun shot. During forth of July we have tons of idiots running around shooting off this and that, and to my surprise the horses never get upset. Ohhhh but have a little dog bark at them down the trial and its a whole other story... Haha I know I wasn't much help on the matter, but I thought I'd comment anyway... It's an interesting question!

Answer 4

the statement "i do natural horsemanship and will not hurt him" is the problem here. you are hurting him by not being stern enough to show him the way he needs to behave. if i gave in every time my child wanted candy he would be a maniac and would have no teeth. that is what is going on here you have not established yourself as leader. being mean is not being his leader, not showing him what to do and then not being able to ride him or work with him. you need to take a firmer mental state and a firmer hand with the horse. most trainers do not beat horses. most trainers use natural training it is just not labeled this touchy feely natural horsemanship nonsense. take the horse into the arena and get him moving. put him on a lunge line and be in control of his feet. you do not need a whip use the end of the lead rope or lunge line and shake it at his butt to get him going. if he is pushy on the ground with you make him move. use your elbow you do not need to hit him with it but jab it towards his face. this is how horses communicate with each other by bumping biting and pushing so you need to speak his language. you are the boss and until you step up to the plate this is only going to get worse.



edit: obviously do not work a horse that is in pain. you nee to get his basic vet and farrier needs addressed before you do any more work with him. good luck

Answer 5

natural horsemanship is much more than simply being sweet or nice to a horse. it's an equal balance of "language, leadership and love." if you are only fulfilling one part of the equation, you will be missing the balance. what is technically the language and leadership part, you may be interpreting as "mean," while your horse will see it as communication and assertion. as long as you are fair, being assertive is not the same thing as being mean. if you want to practice natural horsemanship, you have to do the work. this includes studying the methods of your chosen system (i.e. clinton anderson, monty roberts, or my personal favorite, parelli) and applying the methods, in order, every time you visit your horse. simply being gentle to him is NOT natural horsemanship, and in fact, that is quite unnatural to a horse to be talking (horses don't talk, they communicate via body language) and kissing and only being friendly.

if you feel afraid or nervous, you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT have to get on his back! there is no such thing as spending too much time on the ground...and that is where you build your relationship. you get in the saddle when you have already established an understanding on safe ground. i guarantee people will criticize the natural horsemanship methods, but these are the people who have either never tried it, or they tried it only up until it gets hard...which it does, when your horse still doesn't understand and it resists learning. but the communication comes with time and after that, it's an amaaaazing journey!

Answer 6

Well if you haven't, get the farrier and vet out and check his teeth and back and everything.



And then just try and go slowly and hang out with him, pet him and graze him and things and slowly get a bond with him. Some people may suggest "joining up" with him, but I don't know anything about that really.



Do NOT whip him, this will only make him worse and possibly afraid of you, so high five for not doing that :)

Answer 7

Your doing all the right things going slow with him but you must not be scared he will sense it and walk all over you. There is nothing wrong with being cautious and aware of the dangers but you must have confidence with a horse that has that kind of personality. Listen to your gut instinct it sounds like its telling you he is dangerous / your in danger, its such a shame that cruel treatment can ruin what may have been a totally different tempered horse. Sometimes it stays with them for life and they just can never be trusted, stay on guard and good luck

Answer 8

If he were my horse, I would have his back & teeth checked again. It's worth the money to call an equine chiropractor, his back could be out of whack, especially since he is a former barrel racer. Maybe the saddle is pinching him or the bit hurts his mouth. It sure does sound like something hurts! Don't hurry to ride him, take it slow & easy on the ground....groom him, bath him, graze him, lunge him, walk him around, in other words get to know him & give him time to get to know you. Don't rush to get on his back. If you suspect he was abused, then he will need TIME to trust you. It sounds like you will need time to trust him too.

Answer 9

the horse will know your fear and try more to take advantage of you...this is so hard, i had one and it got so out of hand i just had to sell him...safety first, I made my mom get rid of her mare due to safety issues, she was sad, but has a new one that is great and bonded with her and she LOVES her so much....if you really want to train....start with the ground manners only, no riding thats to far...once ground manners are PERFECT then move on, make him listen to you, stern voice, look big, put those arms up in the air at him and let him know that your the boss, and remeber, a good smack in the shoulder does not hurt them, it just lets them know!

Answer 10

I hope this is helpful--------->



http://www.holistichorsekeeping.com/resources/articles/horsetrustyou.html



http://www.humanimal.com/images/Help_Your_Horse_Trust.doc