Do you follow the crowd?

DelP

2010-06-13 18:54:28 UTC

Honestly I became your fan with how you answered that question. I was raised with STB's and while I saw abuse on the track it was more of rarity then the norm. One of the reasons I think it is so rare is because STB are so sane a lot of owners are involved with their horses. It is common for owners to jog their own horses and walk them after a race. We knew a couple of trainers that had horses owned by groups of elderly people who would dote on their horses. They would take turns cooling the horse out, and just hoped the horse paid for itself. Our horses had turn out. They usually got the winter off in Florida (while we froze our butts of in MI). Every single horse we retired went to a good home as sane and sound horses.

You are exactly right though about every sport having bad people. One of my show barns had Walkers and Saddlebreds and I saw more abuse there than I ever saw on the track (mostly soreing). I've also seen Barrel Racers run the heck out of 2 & 3 year olds and stress their bodies more than we ever did racing. The cheap horse auction that used to be near us would have a few young broken down barrel horses every month. Even at 4h you'll see people do anything to get that extra edge no matter how bad it is for the horse.

When I saw something wrong I told the track steward. I let them handle it and they generally did what they could. Though without proof sometimes they couldn't do anything. My grandpa on the other hand would take things into his own hands. These days he would be in jail for assault. My father told me this story about how a man had a horse in cross ties. Every time the horse moved he'd yell at the horse to not move and hit it with a whip. Of course this made the horse move more and the guy would hit again. My grandpa (a very tall and big man) grabbed the whip out of the guy's hand and started beating him with it. Of course telling the guy not to move while he beat the tar out of him. When he was done he told the guy, "You could understand what I was saying and you still couldn't stand still when I hit you. What do you expect the horse to do." To his knowledge that man never hit his horses again.

Personally if the only racing 2 & 3 y.o's got were small no purse/small purse fair races for experience and the big races were for 4 and up that would help remove a lot of the problems there are. I will not bet on baby races. I will not watch them on tv. If I could change one thing in the industry that would be it. I think a lot of the abuse and easy buck mentality would go away if you needed to care for and train a horse for that long before you even had a chance to make a buck.

My experience on the track has been more similar to yours. I have a wonderful ex racer in my pasture right now who has never been abused. He was downright loved by his owners and trainers. The only reason he got retired is because he got Potomic Horse Fever (he was vaccinated) and got a fever so bad he had tendon damage. The damage healed and he's been 100% sound for us, but his owners didn't feel it was right to possibly ruin his legs by racing on a horse coming off his injuries.

charm

2010-06-13 20:07:22 UTC

I really like this question. It goes without saying that I agree with you-- good and bad people in every sport and every discipline involving horses.

Regarding American Horse Racing:

The horses themselves are generally fed well and treated well while racing. The problem, really, that makes me consider the sport bordering on cruel is that they are brought along FAR too young, run shorter distances than many European runners, and we have too many mediocre race horses being dumped on a market that doesn't support mediocrity.

I live close to a rather large weekly horse auction-- I've seen the horses with a blown knee or even with no indication of lameness, still wearing racing plates, thin skinned and slick, standing in a kill pen, or just left tied in the 'no story' section of the riding horses, before the sale. Yes, hunter jumper people try to check for the possible rehabs, but the fact remains that these horses didn't pass through multiple hands to get to the meat auction. They were taken pretty much straight there from the track, to avoid paying another month of training board.

In that respect, I think racing can be very cruel. Just because a horse who makes it racing is treated well doesn't mean that the industry isn't cruel. It's what happens to the 'Also Rans' that determines for me the kindness or cruelty in a sport.

?

2010-06-13 19:06:29 UTC

The horse racing industry, as a whole in the USA, is very corrupt and mismanaged. If you ever go to livestock auctions, you will usually see many OTTBs who wind up there. Yes, it is against the rules at many tracks to send horses to slaughter. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen... #1 there is nobody to enforce that rule and #2, a lot of them will cut up the horse's lip to make the tattoo illegible so the horse can't be traced back to them. I go to a lot of cheap auctions and most of the horses I see there are OTTBs, used up Amish buggy horses, and BYB crap. They all get bought for meat.

Number two, having been to a couple big racing barns, they do not give their horses any turnout. This is extremely bad for their joints and they develop issues such as cribbing, weaving, etc. The horses just don't seem happy there.

Horse racing is the most universally cruel sport. Of course there are people in every discipline who shouldn't own horses, but racing seems to have the most of them. I think that it's due to the large amount of money at stake. It causes a lot of people who don't truly love horses to get into the sport.

Sure there are bad dressage riders, but you aren't going to get rich doing dressage unless you have something worth studding out. The rodeo people do make a bit of money too, but again, not enough to pay for the upkeep of a horse usually, or the purchase price of a horse nice enough to make that money. Nobody really talks about making money in any sport other than racing. The money motivates people to do cruel things sometimes.

Oh, and the horses are definitely backed too early of course. By the time a horse is really old enough to begin strenuous work like racing, most racehorses are retired. A horse's peak physical condition is age 5-7... now how many 7-year-olds do you see racing? A seven year old SHOULD be faster than a 3-year-old but due to all of the stress on those joints, that is not the case with racers.

Plus a lot of older OTTBs have issues. My ottb is 14 and she has TMD in her jaw from not grazing at the track and mild arthritis. And that's from only ten races. A lot of the wrongdoings impact a horse throughout its entire life.

ADD-- here you can get a horse straight off the track for free or dirt cheap. The "nice" ones who have really good movement, are sound, and have stellar temperaments still only sell for around 1000 tops.

Angie

2010-06-13 18:02:00 UTC

I've never been to a racing stable, and I'm sure that the majority of the people who claim racing is cruel haven't either. Do I agree with starting a horse so young? Absolutely not. That doesn't mean I'm going to complain about how evil and cruel horse racing is. I enjoy watching horse racing.

Rodeo, I've been behind the scenes. The animals used are SO well treated, it's crazy. But the people who claim rodeo is oh so cruel don't know that, because they don't care to educate themselves. They couldn't tell you that the PRCA has over 60 regulations dedicated solely to the animals' wellbeings, and that any competitor who breaks a rule, whether on purpose or by accident, gets slapped with a $500 fine. But they can tell you "Oh bucking straps are tied around the horses genitals to make them buck!!!" Please, explain to me how you put a bucking strap around a mares genitals?

I don't think that ANY discipline as a whole is cruel or abusive. It's the people who participate in the event that make it cruel. And it really gets under my skin when people go out and make all these claims about how "rodeo is so cruel!" or "horse racing is the worst thing ever!!" or "OMG those dressage people are horrible!!" without getting their facts straight.

For your other questions: I don't base ANYTHING strictly from the internet...Makes it a pain to write research papers, since I'm skeptical of everything I read lol. I've been lucky enough to never have witnessed (in person, I've seen videos/pictures, though) any horrible acts of abuse towards horses.

snl

2010-06-13 21:26:33 UTC

like you said, there are bad eggs in every sport. i have seen beautiful, amazingly well cared for racing TBs, but also uncared for ones. the horses at the big stables have the best care, but the horses in the backyard program don't have the amount of money and time spent on them. cruelty in equestrian sports is the exception, not the rule. i never see cruelty at the shows that i go to, and western pleasure is often perceived as being the bad discipline, where horses are beat to be a certain way (which is not true at all). people get one thought in their head, and it festers, and grows, until they can't remember what the good parts were, and all they see is the bad stuff. for every person beating a horse, there are 100 more loving a horse, it just depends on if you see that one, or the other 100.

i don't love all equestrian sports, and i know not all of it is good, but i do think that there are tons of people that try to make sure that no abuse happens. at AQHA shows that i go to, you HAVE to report a case of cruelty if you see it, or you could be in trouble, and the top 3 horse are drug tested. there are tons of precautions set up to make sure the horses are well cared for, and i hate when people think that there aren't.

good question :)

2010-06-13 18:09:04 UTC

I've been to races, I've competed in events and hunters/jumpers, I've gone to more rodeos then I can count.

Out of all the ones I've been to, the hunter/jumper people would have to be the worse, and even then it's not that bad. Here in California, if people don't like what they see, they generally confront the people directly, or take it to the show managers. But I do know that it's not like that everywhere. The biggest thing that I've seen at the shows are people overworking their horses, or just plain ignorance. On show mornings I like to get to shows at least 2 hours before registration to really let my horse settle in, and I see people lunging their horses for sometimes 40 minutes to an hour, until they really look like their going to die. But those same people usually go home with no ribbons, and a scolding from the judge for their stupidity. The rodeo and racing horses? They live in luxury! And the event horses, I'm jealous! Haha. When I go to the bigger shows, the amazing grand prix horses get bouncers in their stalling area! I'd switch lives with them any day.

cobra

2010-06-13 18:51:04 UTC

I don't think horse racing in general is cruel. As you have said before all facets have their bad eggs.

I don't think any horse sport is cruel. Some have more risks than others, but most are only adaptations of natural behaviors.

I have not had experiance at racing at any level. Pacing/ harness racing is one I would question as being may be unnatural ?

In general horses enjoy competing, racing and just generaly love being with people as a substurtute for their herd mates.

My daughter goes to pony club and trail rides. You can see when the horses are enjoying what they are doing, ears foward and moving freely.

Everyone I have met with horses, love them, treat them as a friend and the thought of doing any thing that would injuir their horse is something that is never considered.

Missy B

2010-06-13 17:45:21 UTC

I don't feel that racing is cruel.

I do feel that using the horses so hard at such an age leads to problems, which takes them to the kill pen, which I do consider cruel.

Yes, good and bad eggs in every sport, but hundreds of nice TBs get sent down the road every weekend because they become unsound and useless at age 2 or 3.

RTJunkie

2010-06-13 18:00:29 UTC

From my view there are two sports that are absolutely cruelty to the horses. Big lick Tennessee Walkers, and wild horse races. I really don't think there is a need to explain these things. It's pretty easy to look up.

ilovehorses!!

2010-06-14 07:32:49 UTC

i totally agree wit u!! in Ireland anyway, racehorses are treated just as well as any other competition horses.

obviously, there are the exceptions to the rule, but there are mistreated horses in all horse disciplines. I've seen many show-jumpers and dressage horses pumped with steroids and god knows what else, and suffering for it in later years.

of course, i disagree with race-horses being broken in so young, but many stables i know do the same with regular horses so they can sell them off quickly. where i live, the racing industry is quite successful, and well-run.

i have more of a problem with horse sellers who have gone broke and are abandoning their neglected horses at county fairs so they won't have to deal with them any more.

yep! we're having great luck with racing at d moment alright! glad 2 know ur doing well out of it!!

2010-06-13 17:53:33 UTC

I don't like where they tie those ropes around the horses stomach to get them to buck people off. Some have left sores on the horses. I believe you already know my opinion on racing.

I don't like horse racing and I don't like the rodeo event I have mentioned above, and I don't rely on the internet, I rely on my horse friends who have been there and seen it, and told me about the things. I believe them.

I almost got an ex. racer but she had back problems because of racing and through every one that tried to get on her off, and I didn't get her.

I boy cot racing. xP I don't buy anything from it. My grandpa (the one I don't live with) says he likes racing, but that means nothing at all to me. He likes to beat dogs, too.

***Add*** I see you as a compassionate horse person, and I think there a a couple horse people that care about there horses when they race them, but I think there's a very *low* percentage of those people.

2016-06-04 01:51:29 UTC

Following at the moment Mickey contacts stars & questions Good song that, like Fleetwood Mac

Ehawlz's Ghost

2010-06-13 17:52:14 UTC

There are cruel people in every sport, just as there are good people.

I don't pass judgment on anyone, just because someone else who is in the sport/breed does something nasty. I certainly don't burn my TWH's legs with chemicals to get them to step higher, now do I?

I live in Central Kentucky, and I drive by oodles of Thoroughbreds all the time. I don't think that they look like awful, abused animals.

I wish that they would wait longer before racing them, of course...

2010-06-13 18:02:37 UTC

idk if race horse owneres r ceual. i dont race.

well i dont like rodeos. they beat up the horses.

i have seem a man hit a horse w/ a piece of wood to get the horse woken up be4 a rodeo.

i would of done somthin but it was when i was 7. i didnt think i could do somthin. i would of called the police if i saw some1 do ever again.