Has anyone considered this about tom thumb bits...?

Question

I know lots of people hate them because they are "harsh". And lots of people say that the only people who use them are inexperienced or have a horse that needs proper training. But has anyone considered that they have a purpose and are meant to be used by certain people on certain horses? For instance, for certain types of riding you can't make any visible cues to your horse or you get marked off so you need your horse as sensitive and responsive as possible. When using tom thumbs (properly) you don't move your hands very much. The majority of the time you just flex your fingers and unless you're looking for it it's hard to see the movement at all. Obviously kids and inexperienced riders don't know how to have light hands and whatnot and shouldn't use them but they do have a purpose and work just fine in the right hands. My gelding can be ridden in all sorts of different bits but I use a tom thumb with him the most. He never throws his head, never refuses, never does anything he's not supposed to and all I do is flex my fingers. He has no problems taking the bit and has never had an adverse reaction to it. We have a number of horses that we use them on and none of them have any bad reactions to them. It's about the hands behind the bit over anything else and knowing how to properly use them.

Thoughts?

Answer 1

Yes, I agree for the most part. I use the tom thumb bit on my Arab, and he does great in it! He rarely tosses his head (just as much as any other curb bit that i use) and really works well in this bit and is responsive, and flexes at the poll well.

However, n the wrong hands, this bit (as any other mild to severe bit) can do some harm - to use this bit you need a fairly responsive horse and a set of soft hands; therefore, this bit also does not work with every horse. I do wish that people wouldn't just judge that it is such a hard and cruel bit! My horse is very well trained but isn't as responsive in too mild of a curb bit. At shows, I usually use a medium port flat cheek curb for extra control, kind of like this - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350368651996&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=WVI7&GUID=6b86fcc31290a0aad270bf10ffcad90c&itemid=350368651996&ff4=263602_263622 .



I think the best thing to do is find the bit that your horse comfortably and gives you enough control, so he can be as responsive as possible. I am sick of those who complain of how cruel this bit is, it works great on some horses, and no bit works for all! No matter what bit, the hands that control it can damage a horse. I agree with you, and my gelding is the same way!

Answer 2

A Tom Thumb is not a snaffle, it is a curb bit. Any bit, with shanks, no matter what the mouthpiece is, is a curb bit. Curb bits work by leverage. Snaffle bits do not have leverage. Some people think that a snaffle bit means it has a jointed mouthpiece. That is not the definition of a snaffle. A snaffle bit is any bit which has the reins in a direct line to the mouthpiece. The mouthpiece can be solid straight bar, mullen mouth, jointed, double jointed, twisted, or other shape. The mouthpiece does not define if it is a snaffle, but will define what type of snaffle it is. A curb bit uses leverage by the use of shanks. The shanks can be short (1 or 2 inches) or long (8, 10, 12 inches or more). By having shanks, the reins are fastened BELOW the mouthpiece. When the reins are pulled, this causes the bit to rotate in the mouth so that the Purchase (the part about the mouthpiece) is rotated forward which pulls down on the headstall so pressure is put on the poll of the horse. The purchase rotation also causes the curb strap/chain to be pulled upwards resulting in pressue under the horse's chin. The length of the shanks determine what the ratio pressue is on the horse. If the purchase is 1 inch and the shanks are 8 inches, then the ratio is 8:1 so if you put 5 pounds of pressure on the reins pulling back that tranlates into 40 pounds of pressure on the horse. That is why a curb bit is "stronger" than a snaffle. A Tom Thumb is a cruel and harsh bit. A lot of people will disagree saying it depends on the hands of the rider. That is true to a point. Even a snaffle IN THE WRONG HANDS can be cruel. However that does not change the nature of the Tom Thumb. The way it is made will greatly confuse a horse and cause pain. The TT not only has a jointed mouth and shanks, but it also swivels at the mouthpiece. When you pull on the reins, the bit "breaks" at the joint and acts as a "nutcracker" on the horse's mouth. With horses wearing a TT, you will often see that they carry their head up or throw their head up when any pressue is put on the reins. They are trying to escape the pain. This action also causes them to hollow their backs which can lead to sore backs. This head up problem is also why you will see alot of horses that are wearing TT's will have Tie-Downs on. The swivel action of the TT creates direction confusion. Most horses are taught to move away from pressure. When you pull on one rein of the TT in an attempt to direct rein the horse, you will actually give two opposite signals. Say you are pulling on the left rein. The pull of the rein tries to pull the horse's head to the left. However, because the TT swivels, the pulling of the bit on the left side cause the top of the bit to swivel / rotate INWARDS so the top of the bit is now pushing hard into the side of the horses mouth/face, so the horse will want to MOVE AWAY from the pressure by GOING TO THE RIGHT! Here again in photos and videos you can often see the horse's reaction by seeing the horse's nose being pulled left, but the rest of the head will be tipped to the right as he tries to get away from the pressure. Many people will say they need the "control" that a TT offers. Well, the proper way to look at it is if your horse needs a cruel, harsh bit for you to "control" it, then that means he needs to go back for more and better training! No horse should have to be controlled with PAIN!

Answer 3

It's great that your horse goes well in a tom thumb, and that you have soft hands. I don't think most people who criticize tom thumbs would have a problem with your situation.



The reason people (myself included) don't like tom thumbs is because of how they are often marketed; they were designed to be a transition bit between a snaffle and a curb. They were meant to be a horse's first introduction to a leverage bit. However, tom thumbs can NOT be direct-reined in correctly and because of the straight shanks give no warning before the bit engages. So they are a poor choice for a horse transitioning up into a curb/leverage bit.



If your horse is already using a tom thumb and goes well in it, there is no real reason to change. If you are considering changing bits due to a problem or are training your horse to accept a curb, however, a tom thumb is a bad idea. It is not a well designed bit and most horses will become hard mouthed and unresponsive in it. There are many, many bits that can help refine your cues (to make them invisible) and most of them are much kinder to the horse and give clearer signals. That is why most people are against them; why not use a less confusing bit?

Answer 4

Tom Thumbs are crap, in most instances. Here is the problem: they are incredibly cheap/inexpensive, they sometimes come free on cheap headstalls, and they look similar to other bits that beginners might recognize. The problem is that all of these qualities make a Tom Thumb appeal to people that just don't have a lot of horse experience, and those are not the people that should get their hands on this bit. Many people don't understand the mechanics of their bit at all, and are not willing to invest in decent equipment because they don't know the difference. I work in a tack store --I've seen it all!



I have seen very few horses that ride decently in this bit, and they were extremely well broke to begin with. Most throw their head.



Britter is right, good explanation.

Answer 5

I think that if a horse is truly responsive and supple, you can control him with your little finger in a snaffle. You shouldn't need massive shanks and curb straps to amplify the poundage and keep your cues invisible. When showing one handed, a simple low port solid curb ought to do it, too.



I also think that if a horse can go in a snaffle, he should (and if he can't, he needs retraining). Why use a sledge hammer when you can use a tack hammer and get the same result?





I believe the only reason tom thumbs are still on the market is because people are still willing to pay for them and to some extent because of the conventions in the show ring. Perhaps, too, because of it's ill-advised popularity.

Answer 6

I agree.

My theory is that bits are just translators. All bits translate the message in different ways, kind of like different languages. So you have to find the bit that speaks the language your horse prefers. So if your horse likes and understands the language of the Tom Thumb, then use it.

I've used a Tom Thumb on Peanut, he does ok in it, but he prefers a bit with a port or a Wonder Bit, or a snaffle. Every horse prefers something different. It's just all about knowing how to communicate.

Answer 7

Let me put it to you this way:



I once was trying to help a young girl get ready for her 4-H fair on her pony. She couldn't get a right lead, and the pony was very broke, so it just didn't make sense. We tried about ten different things, and finally I said, "So how did she get her lead before?"

And the girl pulled the mares nose toward the inside, bumped the pony with her inside leg, clucked... and had a lovely lead. It makes no sense, it isn't any cue I'd ever known to work, but if the mare goes that way, then she does.



In other words, if the bit works for you and works for your horse, then it does. I once had a gelding who would flat out BOLT if put in a straight solid curb, or in a hackamore. If I rode him in a Tom Thumb, he would turn and stop beautifully. Hard to justify throwing out your bit if it works for you.



Just keep in mind that some people don't care for Tom Thumbs, and WHY they don't like them. Then if in the future you run into problems with bits, you can use that knowledge to help you decide how to proceed. :)

Answer 8

Very well said! Unless we're talking bits with chains as mouthpieces, most bits have a purpose. So long as the rider holding the reins is experienced and has good hands, you can get away with a strong bit; I myself tune horses up from time to time in an elevator (when needed) who, for lessons, would just wear a snaffle.



I have a OTTB jumper who flats in a loose ring and jumps in a gag, because there's no stopping him otherwise. You have to fit the equipment to the horse, rider and current situation.



I think what people object to is when harsh bits don't fit either of those categories.



Or (not to be rude) but they lack experience and are improperly applying what someone else told them for THEIR situation.

Answer 9

I acutally think I use that bit on the gelding I ride. I was alway wondering what it way, but now that I see it..

I have never had bad things to say about it. Mooch doesn't mind it at all, and is actually very relaxed in it. I have soft hands, and with him I do my best to make them very soft because of the bit. He works great in it.

But yeah. The mildest bit can be "harsh" in the wrong hands. Mooch has had much training, and is just the sweetest thing.



Lots of Luck!

Answer 10

Hollywood: While your thoughts are GREAT in that light hands and soft, invisible cues are best to keep your horse sensitive and reponsive and I agree with you 100% on that, you are still missing the boat on Tom Thumbs. They are not bad bits because of the people that use them; any bit can be a bad bit if put in bad hands. Tom Thumbs are bad bits because they are poorly designed.



The Tom Thumb was initially supposed to be a transition bit between a true snaffle bit (a bit with no shanks on it, with a broken mouthpiece) and a curb bit (a bit that has shanks, and the mouthpiece is either broken or solid). A Tom Thumb technically is a curb bit, because it has shanks and leverage, although many people (and horse magazine/catalogs) incorrectly call it a snaffle bit.



Because of the way the shanks are on a Tom Thumb, when you try to direct rein you get pressure on several different areas around the horse's mouth. So if we pull the left rein to turn to the left, because the rein is attached to the bottom of a swiveling shank it makes the shank turn and tip into the left side of the horses face. This also makes the mouthpiece move with also makes the right side of the bit turn and tip into the right side of the horses face. No wonder the horse gets confused! He's getting pressure from both sides of the bit and he has no idea where to go. To make things worse, the curb stap under the horse's chin also tightens when you pull on one rein.



Otfen, the horse will resort to twisting his neck and shaking his head because he is trying to tell you that he does not understand. The majority of people, see the horse as being bad and "not listening" and punish accordingly by applying MORE rein pressure and just making this a bigger fight. He may also try to lift his head really high or really low in the air, to try to figure out what you want.



Pulling backward on the reins makes the hinged mouthpiece of the bit to collapse and jut foreward and then downward inside the horse's mouth. This puts pressure on the horse's tongue. But at the same time, the bottoms of the shanks where the reins are attached tip backward because you are pulling backward, which causes the top of the shanks to tip forward. Continuing the mess, this makes the curb strap to tighten under the horse's chin. And we are back to the same problem. The horse is getting so many different pressure cues from so many areas, that he just doesn't know what to do.



The idea behind neck reining is to be able to turn your horse by applying light pressure on his neck from the rein. To turn to the right, the rein is laid on the left side of the horse's neck. And opposite to turn to the left. When done properly, this does not include the bit at all! It should only involve the rein touching the horse's neck. In this sense when it is done correctly and the bit is not involved at all, a Tom Thumb is just fine. However, I have seen VERY FEW riders who do not pull too far when neck reining, which then engages the bit and starts all those problems we just dicussed.



Because a Tom Thumb has so many moving parts in that particular design, even the lightest pressure during neck reining will make the bit shift. Again, the shanks tip and turn, the curb strap to tightens, the mouthpiece collapses, and the horse is once again confused. Often, the horse will respond by tipping its head to the outside, or turning in the complete opposite direction that you want! Of course, most riders repremand the horse by grabbing the reins with both hands, getting angry, and then pulling directly on the reins ... which again, we already discuess is BAD.



So even if you are a truly careful rider and always properly neck rein your horse, you still have to stop or back him at some point, which is where there are problems. Yes, your horse may tolerate the poor bit action and numerous pressure point (horses are very forgiving animals), but the FACT is that that is how that bit works. And it's junk. There are SO MANY other bit choices out there -- why stick with one that nutcrackers in your horse's mouth, provides little to no release, and confuses the heck out of him? Would it really hurt anything to just use a better bit?



And just so we are clear, THIS is a true Tom Thumb bit.

http://www.valleyvet.com/group_images/26075_A.jpg



There are other versions out there that have a curved shank instead of a straight shank (true Tom Thumb) which helps the poor action of the bit a little bit ... but still not that great of choice either.

Answer 11

No horseman with the finesse to properly use a curb bit for refined signal would ever choose a bit of such poor design as the Tom Thumb curb. Jointed mouthpieces and swiveling shanks don't equal refinement....they make subtle and correct signal impossible.

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Add....as for neck reining in this bit, it is impossible to neck rein without significant erroneous signal on the loose jaw shanks. Where no signal is wanted, wrong signal is delivered. Even the best hands still deliver vibrations through the most stable of shanks.....rotating shanks on an unstable mouthpiece add to the signal that is opposite to the desired message the neck rein should be imparting to the horse. The brain of a horse is incapable of sorting and interpreting these confusing signals.

Answer 12

i definitely agree. i get upset when i see riders using harsh bits that don't know how to properly and efficiently use them, which makes the situation worse for the horse and rider.



if the rider IS experienced and knowledgeable enough to use that bit and it helps the horse, then go for it (:

Answer 13

from where i come from tom thumb bits are completely different to the american ones. they look like this http://www.tds-saddlers.com/ProductImages/18151.JPG and only young children on ponies use them as they help with steering.



i know what you mean about bit prejudice though, i rode my old pony in a happy mouth pelham and i had all sorts of people telling me off for using it, when in fact he went so nicely in it and i could have light hands rather than when i had a snaffle and he would tank off round the course. dont listen to what other people think, i agree in the right hands its fine

Answer 14

I have no idea why people have a problem with tom thumb bits I used to have a horse that could only be ridden in a copper tom thumb in any other bit he wouldn't listen and threw his head nonstop but with a copper tom thumb he was a lot calmer. I think he was just picky but I don't think they are "harsh" I mean any bit if improperly used can be harsh